Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)

[Zombiemonkey]

I'm so sorry to hear this! How awful! My puppy was attacked by a dog of exactly the same description a few months ago when he was 4 months old. It was towards the girl school outside the park. There was also a brindle staff with it who also joined in. They were walked off the lead by a group of teenagers. I kicked Blue and scared it away from my puppy who was on the lead and couldn't move, and was verbally abused and pushed by one of the kids! I managed to get rid of them by shouting and got my phone out to call the police in front of them so they ran away. The police were absolutely useless and not interested... I'll warn all my friends who walk their dogs in the park. So sorry for little Morph! :(

[Shaila Shah]

I dont have a dog and I never go to peckham rye park because of the dogs! The attack is horrific - reprot to the RSPCC? I have no idea what can be done in these cases but surely there must be something!!!

[fuzzyboots]

Hi all,

It is very heartening to read your support and views about what happened to our darling little friend, Morph yesterday. To be honest, we're all just reeling from the suddenness and the huge loss we're feeling.

I will indeed go to see Mark the Head Park Keeper and report the incident to the Safer Neighbourhood folks and the RSPCA.

I would like to clarify to everyone what happened:

The dog in question was with his other dog companion and they both ran up to Morph and invited him to play with them, using play bows and bouncing. Because of the size difference between Morph and the other dogs, he crouched down with his ears down and I think that Blue, the offender, interpreted this either as submission or that Morph must, as mentioned above, be "prey". This was not an attack where the dog went tearing up to Morph with the clear intent of attacking him. It was a game that went horribly, horribly wrong.

I have described Blue as a staffordshire terrier, because that is the nearest description I can give with my knowledge of dog breeds. I am questioning my identification of him as a Staffie, because I've been looking them up on the internet and this dog seems to be leaner and taller than most of the staffie pictures I can see. He had a slim face and his body is lithe, not stocky. Maybe he is a cross with another breed, or simply a breed I don't know about.

If anything, I'd probably now describe him from memory as a cross between a staffie and a boxer in terms of his physique, although his chest was not as deep as a boxer's chest.

He and his companion were in very good condition. I had seen their owner carefully washing Blue off at the water tap at the loos at the Cafe Car Park entrance when I arrived there with Morph, so I actually assumed that he was washing off muddy splashes and would be on his way out of the park, not on his way into the park with his dogs.

If this dog is a Staffie, then from what I understand of them, they are NOT generally a threat to humans and indeed they are very affectionate with humans.

When we saw the lovely vet, Amber, at The Neighbourood Vet Centre yesterday, she was very clear that Staffies are brilliant with humans and absolutely rubbish with any other dogs. She mentioned that her very own dog had nearly been subject to an attack by a blue staffordshire the day before, but that at the last minute, the blue dog had been distracted by a squirrel, so the attack didn't happen.

I do not believe that whipping up concerns about children's safety is really helpful or accurate. When I ticked the dog off, he stood very obediently in front of me waiting for my instructions.

Obviously I feel very strongly that all dogs of this breed and nature MUST BE MUZZLED at all times in public.

I will post some more when I've had a chance to speak to Morph's mum again.

Thanks for your support - I can't tell you how much it means to Dara and me.

Best wishes

Trish/Fuzzyboots

[colville09]

I'm so sorry for the poor dog and the people involved. From the various posts, this 'Blue' dog has been hurt other dogs and the stupid owner is totally responsible. The dogs are either out of control or being encouraged to do this. I don't think you can be certain that someone or a child going to the aid of another dog being savaged will not get seriously hurt.For the sake of all park users, they should be identified. There must be a pattern to the times when these dogs are let loose there. If people pool this knowledge and log the events then at least the RSPCA / park wardens have something to go on.

[first mate]

Fuzzyboots,

Many thanks for taking the time to write more about this awful incident, especially under the circumstances.

Yes, it sounds like the interaction between the dogs went wrong, but it sounds as though this dog has attacked a few times. It seems that the dog might start off playing but it rolls over into something else, or the dog treats the other dog as though it is a toy. Given the opportunity I am sure this dog will try to do the same again.

It is known that bull breed types from what would have been fighting stock are not great at reading the body language of other dogs or of signalling their own 'intentions'. For this reason owners need to be extra vigilant with them around other dogs. As you say, they tend to be good/extremely biddable with people and children and I think this misleads a lot of owners who cannot grasp that while they may be reliable with humans they are less likely than the average dog to be reliabel with other dogs.

Again, I am so sorry for your loss and I am sure the local 'dog community' will help and support you in any way we can. Most of all in trying to get some redress for you.

[Huggers]

in addtion to what First Mate says, when I went to dog training with Robert-off-dog-borstal who did classes in New Cross, he discouraged any 'play fighting' between dogs when young as he believed it gave dogs fewer inhibitions re aggression and then play could trigger a reflex aggression when they were older in a play situation.

[Marie81]

So sorry for your loss, my heart goes out to you....poor Morph, I can only imagine how devastated you must be feeling :(

When one of my dogs was attacked at Xmas we rushed her home without getting the owners details as had to get her out of that situation quickly, she was on a lead. I managed to track the owner down last month and let them know the extent of the damage caused and the huge vet bills and are currently claming though their insurance. But more importantly I wanted to track them down as they weren't away that their dog had even bitten mine as they had gone off ahead of their dog when it happened. If you can I think you should track down this owner and make them aware of what happened to poor Morph!

The police will do something if a dog kills another under the dangerous dog act.

As a rule I don't allow either of mine to socialise with dogs they don't know, I don't allow strange dogs to even sniff them as you can never tell whether two dogs will get on or not. Only yesterday a dog (not a bull breed) ran over off lead aggresively brandishing it's teeth and went straight for my dog snapping for no reason other than it obvioulsy doesn't like the look of her, I got in the middle and had to drag her off the ground by her lead and swing her behind me to protect her.

I hope the owner of Blue is told about this and will seek the help of a behaviourist, keep Blue on a lead at all times and muzzled from now!

[jctg]

Isn't a problem with these dangerous dogs the fact that a lot of them are cross-breeds and there isn't an actual breed called a 'pitbull', only a pitbull-type? Most of the ones I see around seem bigger than staffs but not as big as those enormous banned ones like that Argentinian breed. I don't see how you could ban a cross-breed?

Also, you hardly see any rottweilers or dobermans around anymore, only these smaller, equally vicious dogs. Unfortunately it seems to be true that the more vicious the dog, the thicker the owner.

[Huggers]

jctg, it doesnt take a pit bull to kill a small dog, just any larger dog that gets a grip and shakes it about. The problem here was an out of control dog. The dog wasnt out of control because it was a staffy or a particular breed but because it had a thoroughly irresponsible owner!

Bring back dog licences. Last week I sat in the japanese water gardens on Peckham Rye with my dog on his lead sitting by my feet when a totally unaccompanied staffy of some kind came tearing into that enclosure- where dogs HAVE to be on the lead- and started to terrorize the ducks. No one came looking for it. If it had been a dog aggressive dog we would have been totally trapped. The problem was an owner who didnt give a f*** and was probably engrossed in in their mobile on the other side of the park.

[Marie81]

Well said Huggers, it's the owner to blame not the breed. Any breed of dog can be aggressive jctg! A dog can have fear based dog aggression and an owner can be seeking help for that dog....it's ignorant to assume that the more viscious the dog the thicker the owner!

[Aliborg]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/65/section/7

This should be done

[bonniebird]

What Huggers said (tu) get the dog licence back, with the revinue from that, employ dog trainers and dog wardens who actually like and understand dogs, not just a bod, stop these idiots (back yard breeders) who know NOTHING about breeding dogs from exploiting there pets by making money, all dogs microchipped, banned dogs all neutered, muzzled and chipped and someone to enforce those rules, the Pitbull should then die out. If a pregnant Pitbull bitch is taken into rescue or seized from her owners, she is allowed to give birth to her pups, she is allowed to rear them to about 8 weeks old, then they are taken away from her and euthanised, she if she is lucky may be re homed although I think that maybe against the law. I once saw a photo of 9 perfect little fat Pit pups laying on a vet table in a row in the same position all dead because of scum wanting money, it is against the law to re home a Pitbull in this country. Innocent little pups dying, not a chance of a life what a waste, so think before you breed, pop to Battersea and see how many Bullbreeds are in there and wonder why they aren't taking anymore in, this isn't aimed at anyone on here, just saying is all...............

[tibby]

sorry to hear about your dog but i must say the warden who is very rarely in peckham rye the chap on bike is usless he rides around park on the bike doing nothing so waste of time reporting it to him

[ianr]

Aliborg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/65/section/7

>

> This should be done

Section 3(5) of the same Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 confirms:

(5)It is hereby declared for the avoidance of doubt that an order under section 2 of the Dogs Act 1871 (order on complaint that dog is dangerous and not kept under proper control)?

(a)may be made whether or not the dog is shown to have injured any person; and

(b)may specify the measures to be taken for keeping the dog under proper control, whether by muzzling, keeping on a lead, excluding it from specified places or otherwise.

I've not seen anything suggesting that a complaint to magistrates under the Dogs Act 1871 (as mentioned above on p2) can't be made by a lay person; though it would be very advisable to get good advice as to evidence and procedure if thinking of doing so. Would the RSPCA be willing to help? That Act also gives the court power to order destruction.

Defra have some useful information sources on the law at http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/dangerous/.

[first mate]

Specialist advice on the law can be sought at Trevor Cooper http://www.doglaw.co.uk/

[psych]

I have a toddler who loves running about in this park its worrying that there are dangerous dogs around like this

[ClareC]

I have a baby and a toddler and am about to rescue a dog, maybe even two. I've been looking at the dogs looking for homes on the web and it's heartbreaking! The people that breed dogs to make a quick buck are despicable. The suffering they cause is shocking.

This is such a sad and awful thing to have happened, I am so sorry for your loss.

Im glad you clarified what happened, it clearly was the owbers fault and there is nothing to indicate this dog is dangerous to people. That said, it should be muzzled and the owner held accountable!

[iceicebaby]

So sorry to hear about this.

[fuzzyboots]

Thanks again everyone for contributing and reading this thread. I shall be seeing Morph's mum tomorrow morning and will help her to read your posts again.

I shall also be visiting Mark Newell, the park ranger, and the neighbourhood vet centre and discussing matters with Morph's mum.

Civil legal redress may be available in principle, but neither Morph's mum nor I can afford legal fees, so that, unless there is a pro bono legal angel reading this, is very unlikely to be feasible - which I have to say, seems very, very unfair. She still has a bill of ?300 or so to pay to the Vet Centre for the emergency care they gave Morph on Friday immediately after the attack, which of course, has to be a priority.

She is heartbroken - and, without encouraging vigilante type behaviour - I would ask any dog walkers (or anyone interested, actually) to let this irresponsible dog owner know of the horrifying consequence of his dog's action, if they should see him in the park. Obviously, I don't want anyone to get into any sticky situations or to put themselves at risk of any sort - but I do want him found - because I think he should at the very least, refund my friend for the costs his dog's actions have incurred.

Morph's mum was already planning to get another dog as company for Morph, and she is now looking in earnest for a new dog (NOT a replacement for our little darling friend). She is looking for a male labrador - so if any of you know of one looking for the most loving home, where he would receive 24 hour love, affection and company, with at least two walks a day with devoted walkers, then please contact me via PM. She is very experienced with dogs - this is the first time in 18 years that she has not had a dog, and she is very experienced at training them and teaching them good manners and behaviour. All of her dogs have been an absolute delight to everyone who has met them - including my daughter who was absolutely terrified of dogs before she met Morph and his friend Croi who was an enormous black long haired German Shepherd. Thanks to Dara's calm, loving dogs, my daughter has learned to love dogs - and I never thought that would happen!

If any of you reading this were witnesses to the attack on Morph, I should be very grateful if you would contact me via PM, too.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Fuzzyboots,

I am truly sorry to hear about the vicious attack and death of Morp:(h.

Please do report it to Mark Newell and to the police.

Renata

[fuzzyboots]

Good news everyone - Mark has found the owner of Blue and has his contact details. Mark says the man is very shocked and wants to apologise directly to Dara, which is positive. He is also getting a muzzle for Blue.

I've also received a couple of really helpful pointers in terms of rescue dogs/rescue centres who might have Dara's next forever dog - thanks so much. There are a few beautiful and likely looking characters - so please cross everything folks!

Trish/FB

[Gidget]

deborah.bruce Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> my friends dog was attacked about 2 weeks ago on

> Peckham Rye by a dog with an owner exactly fitting

> these descriptions. Her dog was very traumatised

> and had a stroke the following day. My friend

> reported the attack to the park warden and the

> police.

Did your friend's dog die? What happened after this was reported? You must follow it up.

[Gidget]

Huggers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> in addtion to what First Mate says, when I went to

> dog training with Robert-off-dog-borstal who did

> classes in New Cross, he discouraged any 'play

> fighting' between dogs when young as he believed

> it gave dogs fewer inhibitions re aggression and

> then play could trigger a reflex aggression when

> they were older in a play situation.

All dogs need to learn bite inhibition so this is not necessarily a good thing.

[Gidget]

fuzzyboots Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Good news everyone - Mark has found the owner of

> Blue and has his contact details. Mark says the

> man is very shocked and wants to apologise

> directly to Dara, which is positive. He is also

> getting a muzzle for Blue.

>

> I've also received a couple of really helpful

> pointers in terms of rescue dogs/rescue centres

> who might have Dara's next forever dog - thanks so

> much. There are a few beautiful and likely

> looking characters - so please cross everything

> folks!

>

> Trish/FB

If I were this man I would be totally freaked out and getting legal advice. It really sounds like this dog has caused lots of damage previously based on reports on here and he is now playing a bit dumb.

[fuzzyboots]

Yes Gidget, you could well be right about the owner. I'm afraid I tend to take things very much at face value, so I find it hard to discern when people's motives are other than genuine!

Just passed on the news to Dara about Blue's owner and the websites with the lovely dogs and am popping over to her shortly. I have fallen in love with one of them already - who needs lots of tlc and is very affectionate. So I shall be lobbying Dara ;) - she has already completely rehabilitated one extremely nervous German Shepherd into a trusting, affectionate, playful companion and I'm sure she would be the perfect new mum for this new dog - a Lab/Lurcher cross :)