baby is dropping morning nap but not faring too well without...any tips?

[hellosailor]

Oh wise forumites,

Any tips please?

My daughter has just turned 13 months and for the last week or 2 (apart from a couple of days when she had a virus and was exhausted) she has not fallen asleep when I put her down for her morning nap. I have been leaving her up there for up to 75 mins to see what happens (I have a video monitor and can see that she spends most of that time lying down as if trying to go to sleep, shuffling and changing positions, sucking her fingers as if she might fall asleep but doesn't, she is calm, not crying or anything)

I have tried moving the nap half an hour later but it makes no difference, she still doesn't fall asleep.

This has surprised me somewhat as it's happened overnight - normally I have to wake her up after an hour, if I'd have let her have longer she often would have done, so seems odd that she hasn't shortened the nap first or anything, so my first question is, have other people experienced this with their babies as a temporary phase rather than the actual need to drop it?

She is also not doing terribly well without it, she starts getting fussier and having sudden little meltdowns by about

11:30, and at 12:00 is sometimes too tired and fussy to eat much lunch. I have been putting her down for her lunchtime nap at 12:30 instead of 1:00 since she's been refusing the morning nap, but I can't see how I could make this any earlier because I have only just started getting her more interested in lunch by leaving lunch until 12:00!

Other problem is that so far, cutting the morning nap has not resulted in lengthening the afternoon nap, she is still 'ping' awake after 1hr 15 mins as she always has been, which didn't matter when she was having an hour in the morning as well, but isn't enough if just having one nap..so she is struggling at the end of the day

I have been in contact with Nicola the lovely sleep expert on the forum who says to keep putting her down in the morning for a couple of weeks even though she doesn't fall asleep to rule out being a phase, which is what I plan to do, but wondered if she really is going to drop it, what other people have done to make the transition easier? is there normally a phase where a baby is not tired enough to have the morning nap but not great with just one? do they adjust quickly?

Does it take a while for them to lengthen the afternoon nap having dropped the morning nap? Might that still happen?

When did your babies drop the morning nap out of curiosity? (if they did it organically rather than having to drop it out of circumstances with child care etc) at 13 months she will be the first of all her little friends to do so if she's going to, which seems odd cos she was the last to stop needing the 3rd catnap in the afternoon and has always slept more than most of the babies we know during the day so I thought she'd be on 2 naps for many more months to come (I say 'thought' I mean 'hoped!')

any tips about how to help her through the transition would be much appreciated!

[Saffron]

Between about 11 and 16 months old, Little Saff went through an on/off phase with the morning nap. It didn't result in an earlier or longer afternoon nap. If your LO is not crying, then I agree with Nicola. We weren't that lucky with Little Saff. She was never happy to be left in the cot alone. Sometimes when she wouldn't nap, we did quiet cartoons instead. I also found that if we were out in the buggy, she was more likely to have the morning nap. This did not result in her needing the buggy for the afternoon nap. If you think how differently we all sleep as adults, it makes sense that babies will be different from each other too. I think it's all variations on normal.

[Knomester]

It seems Baby Knomester was quite early in dropping his morning nap - around 10 months. His wake up time was getting a little earlier and around the same time he just stopped sleeping in the morning. I seem to recall that before he stopped napping in the morning his lunchtime sleep had become a bit disrupted too - some days he napped others he didn't (depending on whether he had managed a mornign nap or not, which by that point was fairly short anyway - 30-40 mins).

We carried on putting him down for that morning nap for 2 weeks. He would lie quetly for around 20 minutes and then shout to get up. So after 2 weeks we just stopped putting him down for the morning nap at all. The transition period after that lasted a good 2 weeks or more, during which time he would be tired and grumpy in the mornings but still had no intention of sleeping (he has always been headstrong...). He started sleeping in later in the mornings (to around 7am instead of earlier) and kept his long lunchtime nap.

I'd have loved for him to keep that nap up for longer but he clearly had other ideas...

Have you tried putting your little one down for an early lunchtime nap and shifting lunch to after the nap? You could try her with a snack / milk late morning and then 'proper' lunch after the nap. That way she could sleep from 12pm say so that she doesn't get so tired.

[hellosailor]

thanks for your response Saffron, do you mean that little Saff dropped the morning nap once and for all at 16 months?

Knomester, thank you, all v interesting, and good to hear that after a transition period baby Knomester got used to it..that's what I'm finding frustrating at the moment, my daughter has been fractious all day because she is tired, and I'm used to her being well rested and happy!

As I say, wouldn't be so much of a problem if she was lengthening the afternoon nap to compensate, but so far...nope

Also, I put her down at 7:00 for bedtime today as usual and I can hear her shuffling around up there half an hour later, so she is obviously too wired to settle for bed at the normal time...seems she may have decided she's too grown up for the morning nap but her body would disagree!

Yes I will definitely try splitting her lunch by giving her a snack and putting her down early at 12:00 and then giving her a bigger lunch after her nap if things don't settle soon, as it does too much for her to get through to 12:30 if she hasn't had a morning nap...

if anyone else has any thoughts please add them!

[Fuschia]

Latest baby dropped it at about 1y! But it might have been different if he wasn't being dragged out to school run at 11.30 and 3.30

He has one nap only

Could be 10-11

Could be 1-2.30

60-90

Mins

Ime it only lengthens later

The twins dropped by 18m, though for ages they slept 12-2 or from 1130 if they got the choice

For ages they had lunch at 2 after waking

[KateW]

My daughter dropped her morning nap properly at about 14 and a half months; the month or so before then she would sometimes have a morning nap or sometimes not. On the days that she didn't she seemed to cope ok getting through til lunch. Anyways, over Christmas hols we decided to ditch the morning nap and just keep her going til lunch and she now naps 1-3pm. HOWEVER, from about 9/10 months, I was only letting her have 15-20 mins morning nap which meant she had a full 2 hours after lunch and this kept her going nicely til bedtiem at 7pm. If I'd let her have an hour in the morning there's no way she would have had longer than 45 mins or so after lunch and would have been overtired at bedtime. Like Knomester, we had a transition period of about 1-2 weeks til she 'got it'. I also fiddled around giving her lunch at different times and putting her down earlier/later, but she's never been that good at showing tired signs so TBH, I got tired of trying to work out each day what to do, so she now just gets lunch at 12pm, then in cot for 12.45pm ish, asleep by 1pm and I wake her at 3pm (sometimes leave her if I think she needs more sleep). Some days if we're out for lunch she'll have a later nap, but she copes just fine.

And before anyone bites my head off, YES it's Gina Ford and YES it works for us and YES, if you'd rather do something else then go for it! Just thought I'd add this to your pot of suggestions hellosailor. Good luck, it's a tricky time for a few weeks but fab when they just go to one nap x

[Indiana]

My daughter started dropping her morning nap at about 14/15 months...then she quite soon needed to sleep for 2 hours from about 12.30/1pm - 3pm....we then let her go down about 7.30pm.

She dropped the morning nap quite naturally and I think their lunchtime nap then can extend itself as a consequence.

We then got to the point that if she had a busy morning, she could quite easily sleep for 2 1/2 hours at lunch but we have cut it back to 1 hour and half/45 mins so she is happy to go to sleep at 7.30pm/45pm not past 8pm!

[jennyh]

Hey!

My 13 month old has one nap a day and has done for a few months. She wakes at around 6.30am, she gets tired by about 10am but refuses and fights sleep (screaming in the cot for a long time, fighting me if I try and rock/cuddle her) so instead I keep her awake and power on with playtime, park trips etc. (mornings are very stressful trying to keep her amused when tired!)

I have brought lunch earlier to 11.30 (milk and breakie is earlier as she gets up earlier) and whilst she is often tired I tend to keep it quite simple and easy stuff and she might not eat all of it but if I concentrate on engaging her enough then we somehow get through it. Then she often has a burst of crazed energy from her lunch for 45 mins or so and is asleep between 12.30-1. Anywhere between 1-2 hours.

If she only sleeps for 1 hour then she is difficult, teary and clingy all afternoon so clearly that isn't enough sleep for her but not much I can do as she wont let me help her back to sleep often. 2 hours is perfect and she will be sprightly and happy when she gets up. I have found that her going to nursery 2 days has meant I have had to relax about it, I used to worry that it was bad for her development etc but really every day is different and we just get through them. I don't like seeing her tired and sleepy in the morning as I know she needs the rest but in the weird transition phase when she did sleep at 10-11ish then she wouldn't be tired enough for any afternoon nap until about 5pm which is obviously too close to bedtime so logistical nightmare!

There are some exceptions where she will sleep in the morning, if we are going somewhere in the car etc. In which case she then grabs a second nap late afternoon but wont go to bed until 9ish. A pain but useful if you are visiting family or people outside of London.

I would try and leave her to see how she goes with just the 1 nap as you will prob find she adjusts and will have slightly longer lunch naps, but even if she doesn't she will probably surprise you with how well she can manage on less. I know it's not ideal as you want a well rested and happy baby who isn't too tired to eat or too tired to sleep etc but we've never had that pattern really and in a fashion it kind of works. I understand it is hard if your baby has always been good with a routine...they are litle terrors when they throw things up in the air.

Good luck! We can meet up if you want to chat about it more.

x

[alieh]

I would keep putting her down, as you've planned, especially if she is happy just not sleeping.

When my son went through this transition we did a "split" lunch for a long time, and an early lunchtime nap. Even 11:30/12:00. Got out of the house early and had a busy morning to distract from grumpiness, then lunch/snack at 11:00 or 11:30 and then one nap. It can take a while for their bodies to adjust to one nap and for it to lengthen. There are some babies who seem to like a shorter nap and make up for it at night.

The key for these nap transitions for many babies, in my experience, is super early bedtimes. We've had phases of lights out by 6:00 or even 5:30. Most times my son would still sleep until roughly the same time. Even if they end up awake at 6:00, they've had a good long night and are more able to get through the morning with no nap. The key is to avoid overtiredness at bedtime as, for us, that leads to bad nights, more tired in the morning, vicious cycle.

[hellosailor]

Fuchsia, good to hear that the nap might yet lengthen, that's v much what I want to hear!

I can see the good sense in trying the nap earlier and giving lunch after, will try that in a few days if nothing changes.

KateW, interesting, thanks, would love to get to a place where she is napping 1-3, perfecto, looks like it might be bumpy along the way for a bit!

Indiana did it take a while for the nap to lengthen, that seems to be fuschia's experience too, which is heartening!

Hi Alieh, I will prob end up doing this early lunch as others has also suggested if things don't get better soon, but my daughter would not be hungry enough to be interested in eating lunch at 11:00 or 11:30 so wondering, did you just do an elevenses style snack at 11:00 and then a lunch after the nap at 1:30ish?

I've been wondering about putting her to bed earlier, she is sooo wired by 7pm now, but historically if I have ever tried to get her to bed a bit early, she is well aware it is not 7pm and is having none of it, tho admittedly I haven't tried since nap-gate, plus I have assumed that putting her to bed earlier would result in earlier morning waking time and an even longer period to get through before the nap the following day, will prob just have to grow a pair, and try it..

:)

[Saffron]

hellosailor Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> thanks for your response Saffron, do you mean that

> little Saff dropped the morning nap once and for

> all at 16 months?

Yes, after a lengthy transition period, she finally stopping having a morning nap altogether around 16 mo.

[Saffron]

hellosailor Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>> I've been wondering about putting her to bed

> earlier, ...I have assumed that

> putting her to bed earlier would result in earlier

> morning waking time and an even longer period to

> get through before the nap the following day, will

> prob just have to grow a pair, and try it..

>

> :)

Yes, that's exactly what we found with Little Saff. But as you can see by the posts, this is not the case for everyone. It might be a matter of just trying a few different things before you find a combination that works. Also, if you have a long transition period, you may find that what you're doing now will need to be changed again in a few weeks/months.

[alieh]

Also with early bedtimes you might need to go super early so as not to miss the window. If she's super grizzly or tired looking by 4-5 pm then that is a clue that she might have reached second wind wired state by 7. But you know her best so don't listen to me if it means you'll be starting your day at 4 am!