How do you discipline a 16/17 month old boy?

[supergolden88]

My little boy is delightful, adorable, very funny and super affectionate. Unfortunately, he is also very stubborn, has a jealous streak, and most of all is very prone to tantrums and temper fits if he doesn't get his way.

In stark contrast to my daughter (now nearly 6) who never had tantrums and still gets upset if we even look disappointed in her, my son could care less if we are upset, tell him 'NO' etc.

When he is in a mood he will start pushing things (or me) away - this has resulted in food, drinks, toys etc being thrown. He will hit (not hard but still upsetting) or start screaming, throw himself on the ground etc. The difference between when is in a good mood and bad is like two different children. How do I discipline him? Can I even get through to him at such a young age? I have lost my temper (raised my voice - made no impact whatsoever) on a number of occasions which I hate to do but he is very frustrating. The bad moods peak when he is overtired and during meal times but really they can happen any time.

[Saffron]

Even before a tantrum starts, the best discipline might be not to give too much attention to it. It does sound like he wants your attention good or bad. Say NO firmly and consistently and at his eye-level, then immediately face him away from everyone and from his toys if you can. Definitely once the tantrum has started, I'm in the school of thought that says don't intervene.

Fuschia's recent post on this link was interesting... http://m.npr.org/story/143062378?url=/blogs/health/2011/12/05/143062378/whats-behind-a-temper-tantrum-scientists-deconstruct-the-screams

From the link:

But where one age-old theory of tantrums might suggest that meltdowns begin in anger (yells and screams) and end in sadness (cries and whimpers), Potegal found that the two emotions were more deeply intertwined.

"The impression that tantrums have two stages is incorrect," Potegal said. "In fact, the anger and the sadness are more or less simultaneous."

Green and Potegal found that sad sounds tended to occur throughout tantrums. Superimposed on them were sharp peaks of yelling and screaming: anger.

The trick in getting a tantrum to end as soon as possible, Potegal said, was to get the child past the peaks of anger. Once the child was past being angry, what was left was sadness, and sad children reach out for comfort. The quickest way past the anger, the scientists said, was to do nothing. Of course, that isn't easy for parents or caregivers to do.

"When I'm advising people about anger, I say, 'There's an anger trap,"' Potegal said.

I sympathise with you. My daughter is 2+ years old. It often seems like the word 'no' means absolutely nothing to her. Sometimes it helps to say explicitely what the behaviour is that you want to see in place of the undesirable behaviour. I tell my daughter NO when she bops the cat. Then I tell her how to stroke her gently instead.

I asked my mother when it was that she thought children start to understant the word 'no'?

Her reply: "Dunno, how old are you?"

Oh dear.

[supergolden88]

I tried the saying NO then ignoring method once or twice. He just sat on the floor far, far away from me and cried. When he approached me it was to hit me - so I said no again. This took ages to resolve. He is extremely stubborn.

The frustrating thing is the bad moods peak during mealtimes and when I really need him to eat (then I have to prepare food for my daughter). Distraction works occasionally but not always. I have heard no reports of bad behaviour from his nursery where he is very popular.

[Saffron]

supergolden88 Wrote:

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> I tried the saying NO then ignoring method once or

> twice. He just sat on the floor far, far away from

> me and cried. When he approached me it was to hit

> me - so I said no again.

He got your attention though, didn't he? ;-) He's clever as well as stubborn!

> This took ages to

> resolve. He is extremely stubborn.

>

What was your method to resolve it?

Are problems more likely to occur when your attention is/isn't directly on him? At the nursery, how many other children and adults does he see? He potentially has a lot of outlets there for his desire for attention, plus a lot of other distractions for his attention. Just a thought.

[supergolden88]

Eventually he followed me to the next room and I picked him up and talked to him about not hitting etc. I do that every time he hits. But whole incident took a good 20 mins. Don't have the (time) luxury to ignore him every time and not sure it is productive at this age. Not sure he understands why I am doing what I am doing. The moods can happen any time, out of the blue sometimes but seem to peak at mealtimes which are very hit and miss. Sometimes he eats well and feeds himself more or less successfully (very messily) other times he refuses even a single moutful.

Sad thing is that when he is in a good mood he is an absolute delight. He is very sweet with his sister, laughs a lot is very very funny... Why did I have a Scorpio baby? Not that I believe in it really but then I am a Scorpio too and I have a lot of these bad traits

[Carbonara]

Feed him before he gets very tired and hungry

Ignore bad behaviour as much as possible - what he wants is your attention. Make a fuss of him when he is sitting nicely, ignore when he shrieks and hits. Just cease eye contact and place him a little way away from you. No point in lecturing him. I don't think this age respond well to 'no', they are only programmed to battle on at that age, otherwise they would never learn to to the things they find hard, they are in 'never give up' mode.

If he is eating well and feeding himself, talk to him, engage with him over his meal. If he fusses with it, pushes and throws it and refuses to eat it, calmly remove it, or remove him from the table and set him to something else. Don't battle persuading him to eat.

And remember that he will grow out of it.

[Saffron]

supergolden88 Wrote:

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> Eventually he followed me to the next room and I

> picked him up and talked to him about not hitting

> etc. I do that every time he hits. But whole

> incident took a good 20 mins.

That's brilliant. Sounds like you're doing a fantastic job, you just need it all to go more quickly. How long did it take for him to come to you? If this is where you're losing time, try going to him sooner? Sometimes I go to Little Saff and give her a kiss/cuddle even when she's still upset. If she tries to act up or push me away, I just give her the cuddle very briefly and tell her that's it ok to be grumpy. Never make explanations more than a few words. You don't have time, and it'll be lost on your little one at this age any way.

I do remember my daughter going through a phase around this age, where she just wouldn't sit with us for dinner sometimes. I've seen friends' children do this too. It possibly has to do with children learning about independence. If tantrums happen at meal times, is it always the same meal (always breakfast? always dinner?)? What can you change about the meal time to break the association between meal and tantrum? With Little Saff, I would give her leftovers from lunch etc for her dinner in the late, late afternoon. Then when Husband and I had dinner at 6ish, she would spend about 2 min in her high chair and eat just a couple mouthfuls. After that she spent the rest of the meal running around the room. Husband found this phase very irritating, but it got her fed and avoided tantrums. She's now happily eating big meals with us at the table again.

Somewhat tangential, but could it also be teething?

And finally, do you use any sign language with your son? Just adding a few key signs can be really helpful. Tantrums seeming out of the blue sound like a sign of frustration to me. Frustration can often be helped by linguistic development. If your LO is on the cusp of a big linguistic leap, sign language will help him make that leap with less frustration. Contrary to what is sometimes said, sign language does not slow linguistic development of speech in children. Rather, it gives them extra tools to help along the way. Equally I find that emphasising facial expressions can be good for communication. I add extra emphasis by saying, That makes mummy make the sad/happy/angry face.

Huge sympathy. Hope it all gets less stressful soon. xx

[reren]

Just weighing in to say I too am flummoxed by discipline at this age - my son has the wickedest look in his eye - and I'm sure we've made it worse cause he often makes us laugh when doing something wrong! But I have absolutely no idea how to discipline things like standing up in his highchair which he does all the time - usually it is a signal that he doesn't want to eat - but difficult to just let him get down when he's injested only 2 mouthfuls of a carefully prepared meal. Can't really ignore because it's dangerous and we're worried he'll fall? 'No' seems to illicit zero response from him - he just says 'no no' very solemnly back to me... The tantrums are mild and only just beginning - he does a hilarious foot stamp which does just make us laugh - and then he tends to snap out of it and laugh too - I find turning him upside down works a treat too - always makes him giggle and forget what he was cross about (but I fear this won't last ... There's bound to be more difficult tantrums ahead!)

[EDZ]

Time out. Consistently and repeatedly as soon as they start to say no, throw something,don't listen etc. 1 minute when they are one, two minutes when they are 2. When they are little you have to stay near and make sure they don't move. They have to not move for the time allotted. so if they get off the step they need to start over. It doesn't if they start the tantrum so you need to do it as soon as they are not listening. It also has to be very consistent and you have to not lose temper. But a few weeks and they will get the picture, if you are very consistent

[EDZ]

Time out. Consistently and repeatedly as soon as they start to say no, throw something,don't listen etc. 1 minute when they are one, two minutes when they are 2. When they are little you have to stay near and make sure they don't move. They have to not move for the time allotted. so if they get off the step they need to start over. It doesn't work if they start the tantrum so you need to do it as soon as they are not listening. It also has to be very consistent and you have to not lose temper. In a few weeks they will get the picture, if you are very consistent

[cuppa tea]

A time out for a 16 month old???!!! They are barely out of baby hood! Really harsh. They will have no idea of what they have done, or why they are doing it, or why you are making them take a time out, or why they are saying sorry (if they can even speak!). Undesirable behaviour is probably from a need that they want to be met. If the cause is jealousy it sounds as though he needs more individual attention. If he's attention seeking the easiest way to deal with this is to give him attention! Distraction and play at this age work FAR better than naughty steps. They don't even know they are being naughty. It's very frustrating being that age. Find ways to make the world/your home less frustrating.

[supergolden88]

I would use time out or any other similar method IF I thought it would work. I think he is too young for it. The hitting seems to be his automatic response when he is not getting his way or is not getting what he is asking for (a LOT of chatter and pointing at things). I think some of this behaviour will ease when he can communicate effectively. In the meantime will try to explain somehow that hitting is unacceptable.

Does not help that as renen says the tantrums are sometimes incredibly comical. The way my son says 'no!' or 'nooooo!' always makes me laugh.

I think I can prevent some of the situations by handing him a snack before he gets frustrated (crackers are working wonders at the moment)