20 mph limit?

[apbremer]

I had read that this was advisory and not actually enforceable. A friend however has just had a speeding ticket for 25mph in Islington. Surely the whole of London will grind to a halt? Has anyone had a similar penalty around here?

[ed26]

I think the law / local by-laws changed a few years ago. Previously, the "20 zones" were not enforceable but a normal 20mph limit is.

The speed cameras outside Harris Academy and Dulwich Wood House definitely go off at <30 mph.

[mrwb]

My understanding is the police don't activily enforce it, so you won't be pulled over. It's still possible to get a camera ticket though.

There seem to be 4 cameras is Islington:

http://islingtontribune.com/article/police-too-slow-to-enforce-20mph-zones

If you want to find out it Southwark submit an FOI request?

[dimples]

I got a warning letter for driving at 25 miles an hour

Just before Dulwich library and next time a speeding course or fine !!

I was zapped by a group of people standing in for the police checking speeds .

I?m not a fast driver and even at 25 mph other people get cross and drive up my bumper or

Overtake me ,today someone nearly crashed over taking me and missed an oncoming car by a couple of inches !!

[KidKruger]

A 20mph restriction makes roads for drivers and pedestrians safer.

[Asset]

and if everyone stuck to it, the traffic would actually flow better and we'd all get around quicker, if we must go in a car...

[rollflick]

All speed limits on public roads are enforceable. Police used to object to creation of 20mph zones unless they were 'self-enforcing' but UK traffic regulations were changed in 2016 about this.

Though police (or speed cameras) won't normally enforce unless you're going at 10%+2mph over a speed limit, they will in certain circumstances. Such as if even 20mph is unsafe for conditions, e.g. lots of kids spilling out of school. Or if you have been reported multiple times by Community Speed Watch (CSW): https://www.communityspeedwatch.org/

Sounds like dimples has been reported by one of these, which is now operating regularly in Southwark.

[Penguin68]

The major problem with the 20mph limit is that modern cars sold in the UK are optimised to run at 30mph (that's just a matter of tuning) so that the car can appear to 'struggle' at a steady 20mph (if you are used to listening to the car to change up and down). But just get used to it. The difference in damage to human bodies that extra 10mph makes is significant.

[Earl Aelfheah]

The 20 mph limit on Sydenham Hill is a bit unnecessary in my opinion. Almost everywhere else it's in force, I'm massively in favour.

[JohnL]

Extra 10mph not worth the risk of hitting someone - even if it's not technically your fault.

[Penguin68]

The 20 mph limit on Sydenham Hill is a bit unnecessary in my opinion.

Agreed, it's not really in any way a suburban residential street comparable to others round ED and with its wide pavements, people (and children) are far less likely to be forced into the road. It is interesting that the speed camera there is sited at the bottom of a dip in the road, where a car's speed is being aided by gravity - a cynic might suggest that a revenue generating conscious council might find that appealing - although I know of only one person actually flashed and fined there.

[mrwb]

I would like to see the police enforce the mobile phone / texting driving rules more.

Every day I walk / drive around and see drivers using their phones. To me it's unbelievably dangerous, can't they just wait until they're parked somewhere?

I was walking on Townley road this morning and it looked to me like even a coach driver was on the phone, or at least looking down tapping in to something, shocking really.

[AylwardS]

There are a few places the posted speed limit seems odd but that applies to all laws / regulations - you can never have ?one rule fits all?

I frequently get hooted for driving at 20 mph, and overtaken, but how often can you drive over 20 with London traffic?

We learn more and things change. I remember my dad saying that when he was younger he would go out with his friends and the designated driver would drink. This was before drink driving laws and knowing the impact on your reaction times he wouldn?t do it now but then they didn?t know. In 20 years time will it be as unacceptable to speed in a 20 limit zone or use your mobile phone while driving so most people won?t even think about it?

I?ve been overtaken while sticking to the posted 20 limit only to join the queue of traffic further down the road behind the car that overtook me. What?s the point?

[wulfhound]

+1 @mrwb, a few plain clothes police on unmarked bikes would soon put paid to this.

Sydenham Hill.. I'd agree if they put a protected cycle lane in (and it's not like they're short of space to do so). Preferably the flat-kerb type like at Crystal Palace roundabout, not the wands which are admittedly somewhat unsightly en masse. Where general traffic and bikes mix due to lack of a proper cycle lane, 20 is sensible and necessary.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Agree about the need for a cycle lane on sydenham hill.

[malumbu]

If you want the authorities to take action then campaign, lobby your MP, political parties and local authority. Since Blair's Bloody nose by the unholy and anti-environment hauliers and farmers in 2000, governments have backed off anything that looks like a war on motorists. It's seen as a vote loser and to be your God given right to drive how you want, where you want, when you want and sod the consequences. Car occupancy is falling (there's a good start to reducing emissions). On my soap box as a professional tree hugger. See my rant on Court Lane!

[Pugwash]

I have been involved with the Community Traffic Watch - local residents who feel that their road/area attracts drivers who go at excessive speeds can request a traffic watch. Speed guns are provided by the Police and Police have to be present during the watch. Hi Vis waistcoats have to be worn. Anyone caught going over 25mph has their registration recorded and these numbers are collated. If the same registration number appears several times re speeding, then further letter/action is taken.

[seenbeen]

someone should remind the speeding cyclists....I'm dreading the new 'healthy streets'.

[peckham_ryu]

AylwardS Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I frequently get hooted for driving at 20 mph,

Might be worth checking your car?s speedometer against something that tells you speed using GPS (like many smartphone navigation apps). Indicated speed on speedometers is always at least a little bit higher than actual speed. On my car it?s only 2mph so shouldn?t be enough to justify impatience, but my old Ford Focus was a good 5mph off - and I?d be annoyed at being stuck behind someone doing 15mph!

[figgins]

"someone should remind the speeding cyclists....I'm dreading the new 'healthy streets'."

Me too. I much prefer tons of metal zooming up and down, emitting toxic fumes, destroying the environment, using up the earth's finite resources, killing our children, shortening all our lives. God, yes, give me that instead of "healthy streets" any day of the week. "Healthy streets"? Do me a favour.

[exdulwicher]

seenbeen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> someone should remind the speeding cyclists....I'm

> dreading the new 'healthy streets'.

It's quite astonishing how there can be complaints about being held up by cyclists (and there always are - the usual rants about how someone was "stuck behind" them while they trundled away at 10mph for miles upon miles) while there are also complaints about speeding cyclists. Which is it - they're either too fast or too slow uless you've encountered Schroedingers Cyclists - simultaneously too fast and too slow.

They "come out of nowhere" yet can also be heard shouting from miles away.

They dress all in black and can't be seen yet if one jumps a red light, every motorist around seems able to see them instantly.

They wear lurid hi-vis (see note above about how they dress all in black).

Simultaneously so fast that they're overtaking cars in 20 zones but so slow that they're holding up traffic.

It'd just be nice if there was some consistency, that's all. ;-)

The major problem with the 20mph limit is that modern cars sold in the UK are optimised to run at 30mph (that's just a matter of tuning)

That's an urban myth put about by people who are rubbish at driving. I was in a 19 reg Mercedes last weekend (sadly not mine!) and it was a VERY powerful car - twin turbos and a 2L petrol engine. It sat there in 20mph and 30mph zones at 20 and 30 respectively with no issues at all - in fact the car did most of it for me. Intelligent road sign recognition linked to the speedo and cruise control, it auto adjusted. Was actually incredibly easy to drive. Frankly there was zero excuse for speeding in it.

[Sally Eva]

This is what I was told when I discussed being tail-gated on my bike by cars with threateningly loud, revving engines. I had always told myself that the driver didn't mean to threaten me -- they were just unable to control their car -- I'm not sure that either was re-assuring.

And yes, I was told (possibly by exdulwicher) that a good driver should be able to not do this

exdulwicher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> seenbeen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > someone should remind the speeding

> cyclists....I'm

> > dreading the new 'healthy streets'.

>

> It's quite astonishing how there can be complaints

> about being held up by cyclists (and there always

> are - the usual rants about how someone was "stuck

> behind" them while they trundled away at 10mph for

> miles upon miles) while there are also complaints

> about speeding cyclists. Which is it - they're

> either too fast or too slow uless you've

> encountered Schroedingers Cyclists -

> simultaneously too fast and too slow.

>

> They "come out of nowhere" yet can also be heard

> shouting from miles away.

> They dress all in black and can't be seen yet if

> one jumps a red light, every motorist around seems

> able to see them instantly.

> They wear lurid hi-vis (see note above about how

> they dress all in black).

> Simultaneously so fast that they're overtaking

> cars in 20 zones but so slow that they're holding

> up traffic.

>

> It'd just be nice if there was some consistency,

> that's all. ;-)

>

> The major problem with the 20mph limit is that

> modern cars sold in the UK are optimised to run at

> 30mph (that's just a matter of tuning)

>

> That's an urban myth put about by people who are

> rubbish at driving. I was in a 19 reg Mercedes

> last weekend (sadly not mine!) and it was a VERY

> powerful car - twin turbos and a 2L petrol engine.

> It sat there in 20mph and 30mph zones at 20 and 30

> respectively with no issues at all - in fact the

> car did most of it for me. Intelligent road sign

> recognition linked to the speedo and cruise

> control, it auto adjusted. Was actually incredibly

> easy to drive. Frankly there was zero excuse for

> speeding in it.

[first mate]

There are good and bad drivers and the same goes for cyclists. I've had cars driving right up behind me revving loudly, the driver gesticulating and cursing, when I have adhered to 20mph- which I always try to do. However, I have also had cyclists kick the side of my car and others bang the roof as they passed me, for no other reason than I was in a car.

I reckon aggressive car drivers will behave in similar fashion on a bike. Let's not make it an us and them.

[wulfhound]

"However, I have also had cyclists kick the side of my car and others bang the roof as they passed me, for no other reason than I was in a car."

Given the number of cars on the road, if those cyclists actually exist, they'd have very sore hands by the time they got where they were going. (And probably sore everything else.. do that to the wrong person around here and you'd end up getting very badly hurt). Did you get caught up in the middle of a Critical Mass ride or something?

There are certainly some aggro people on bikes (more so in West London.. Chelsea Embankment is really bad for some reason), but in general physical exercise and fresh air will chill people out a bit. Driving in London can be immensely frustrating if you're trying to get someplace quicker - on a bike (unless a power assisted or very expensive model) you're mostly limited by your own ability to make it go fast. It's much easier to be the Big Man behind the wheel of a 4x4 or white van than on a push bike.. not saying people won't try it on, but they're much more easily brought down to size.

[first mate]

I have no idea if the individuals who did this to me had sore hands or feet for that matter- part of me hopes they did as it was unpleasant to be on the receiving end of. My point is, it does and can happen and that is down to human nature and the individual's ability to cope with frustration in a social manner, whether in a car or on a bike. Sadly, there are a lot of aggressive people in a hurry - that's life.