Southwark Council Assembly on March 28 - Older People

[Community Cohesion]

Hello all. My name is Michael Cleere and I'm community cohesion co-ordinator with Southwark Council. I'd like to seek your views for our council assembly public debate on 'older people' at The Charter School, Red Post Hill, Dulwich, on Wednesday 28 March.

Councillors will be focusing on these four questions in particular:

How can the Council recognise the role that people in later life often play in their communities, through volunteering, caring, and by playing an active role in neighbourhood life?

How can people in Southwark take advantage of the wide variety of sporting, educational and social activities available as they get older?

How can the Council promote the greater role that more active grandparents play in their families' lives?

How can the Council work with the NHS and other partners to give older people more choice in the services they receive, enabling them to live healthy lives and stay in their own homes and communities for longer?

Your thoughts on these four questions are very welcome. These will be documented by me and chanelled to all councillors in advance of their themed debate, so that they are well informed of 'the voice of the people' on the matters for debate.

We did this for the January 2012 assembly debate on 'the environment' and the results gathered through discussion forums such as this were particularly useful. This is a summary of the views we gathered:

http://moderngov.southwarksites.com/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=26012

You can post your responses here or email them to [email protected]. We would need to have your views by Thursday 22 March at the latest. Your comments need not be very detailed. A few summary statements that capture your thoughts will be fine.

For background and further information you may find these links useful:

Democracy in Southwark:

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/democracy

How council assembly works: http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/10058/about_southwark_council/445/how_decisions_are_made/2

Asking a public question:

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/10058/about_southwark_council/353/ask_a_question

Taking a deputation:

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/10058/about_southwark_council/354/taking_a_deputation

March 28 assembly:

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200348/democracy_commission/2256/next_assembly

Recent assemblies: http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200348/democracy_commission/2255/council_assembly_past_themes

Thanks for your interest in local democracy and I look forward to hearing from you,

Michael

[Community Cohesion]

Hello again!

We seem to have had no response to this posting. There was a very substantial response to the last assembly-related appeal for views on environmental issues in January.

Can anyone shed some light on why this discussion thread doesn't seem to have generated the same level of interest?

Your views on that, and older people's issues, are most welcome.

The assembly is happening next Wednesday evening at The Charter School, Red Post Hill, in Dulwich. The main meeting (including the themed debate on 'older people') will be preceded by an hour-long informal session from 6pm. That will include performances by The Welcome Singers and Recycled Teenagers. The singers are members of Southwark Pensioners' Centre and Recycled Teenagers (great name!) are a dance group of older people who meet at Peckham Pulse weekly with their tutor, Carl Campbell. I went to one of their sessions recently and found it moving, in every sense of the word. It was inspiring to see older people still so active, involved, and in love with life.

Can we take a leaf from their book, or a step from their routine?

There's still a small time frame for your comments and views on the needs of older people. Today is the last day.

There's the four questions listed in my initial posting. Or perhaps these pointers:

What?s good about being an older person in Southwark?

What?s not so good?

What would older people like more of?

What would you like less of?

How can we make neighbourhoods good places to grow old in?

Are there ways in which society needs to change its attitudes to older people?

Come on East Dulwich!! Tell us the thoughts that surround you.

Michael

[intexasatthe moment]

aargh - such a wide brief ,don't know where to start .

can I come along to some kind of discussion ?

my experiences are very individual ,formed by caring for mother and friends mother .

don't know how to make relevant in a wider sense .

tho I'd love Southwark to sort the pavements out in Peckham - drives me wild ,one standard for the luvvies of East Dulwich and another for Peckham .

[intexasatthe moment]

but off the top of my head - move the Betty Alexander Suite ( holistic ,accesible ie doesn't use the nightmare that is hospital transport to Kings ) back to Dulwich Hospital .

Or somewhere else ,so long as it's not Kings ,doesn't use Kings transport and deals with whole ( incredibly complex health issues of elderly ) rather than just one bit ,in isolation ,at a time .

Do something about the interface between District Nursing teams and GP practices .

And improve the training of the health care assistants who visit on behalf of the district nursing teams ( blimey would their performance be tolerated by the yuppie mums around here with babies ? ) .

Um ,well sort out health care for elderly ...foot care ? what's that ? Wound assesment ? What's that ? Tissue viabilty advice ? Incontinence .....oh is there a difference between general mobility and loss of bladder control ?

Provide adequate funding for the bit that provides equipment and assesment for elderly ...how many O.T's are there ?

How many drivers delivering equipment ?

And sort out the f***ing pavements in Peckham .

[intexasatthe moment]

oh and bring care agencies providing home care back under Southwark control - train them ,pay them a decent wage ( travelling time ? ,ban 0 hour contracts ) .

[intexasatthe moment]

and make all the pavements and crossovers as smooth and puddle free as Court Lane so that old people with limited mobilty and eyesight can get out and walk .

Or enable their carers to push them in wheelchairs .

[PeckhamRose]

Stop the ridiculous expense of authorising and installing signs telling people everything they can't do (recent example, a sign telling men not to urinate in a corner near where I live; as if that will stop them, the corner needs to be designed out and could be).

Make for a more positive atmosphere. Learn from the sign free stretch of Walworth Road.

And what does Older People mean? Southwark Circle does a great job with and for people over 50.

[uncleglen]

(dare i say it-older people may not have the internet-)I am suspicious- probably trying to get older people to vote labour by going on about cut-backs by the coalition. By my observations over the years, whenever Labour have control of the council they make life difficult on the front line but spend money in the backroom and when people complain they blame it on the government. The misery created by the last government will probably mean that 'older' people will suffer until they die!

[Community Cohesion]

In reponse to the legitimate point raised by 'uncleglen' about older people not all having internet access ....

This is just one of a range of ways in which we're trying to actively engage with Southwark residents. We've also been having regular face to face meetings in a variety of group and individual settings and the results so far have been rich.

All will be reported in the dossier of community views which will be circulated to all councillors in advance of Wednesday's assembly and published for all to see thereafter.

Meanwhile, I can share this preview from a face to face conversation I had with a member of an older people's group. I think it is a particularly powerful example of how isolated many older people are, and how it is often other older people who are their lifeline:

"I haven?t been here (day centre) for several months because my neighbour fell and she?s 85. I?ve been helping her because she has no relatives and is completely alone in the world.

I didn?t see her for two weeks during the snow last winter and I discovered that she had been taken into hospital during the night. I went to see her but they wouldn?t let me because I wasn?t a member of her family. I told them I wasn?t leaving without seeing her and in the end I did. I asked her, ?Do you remember me?? She cried and said, ?Yes I do?.

I live on the ground floor in our block of flats and I told her how I baked bread and made soup and brought them up to her during the snow but there was no answer.

I also told her that I would come and see her again and that I would be there for her when she came home. Two weeks later she came home and she was crying, ?I want my Mum, I want my Mum?.

I asked her had she any breakfast and she said no. I made some porridge and brought it up to her. Then I sat with her while she ate it and I noticed how cold the room was. I put on the heater and she fell fast asleep.

We have to look after one another, to know who my neighbour is. If I don?t know them, I will never miss them. We are our ?brother?s keeper? and that?s why I was helping her, until somebody phoned social services and she now has a carer. I have no idea how long I did it for because I didn?t count the days.'

I can add nothing more. But I hope others can.

Michael

PS I audio record my interviews with groups and individuals (with their permission). Hence the above verbatim account.

[the-e-dealer]

How old are 'older' people?

[Pugwash]

I will try and remember to get off work early to get to it. Having been a carer of elderly relatives for at least half of my life and as a professional worker dealing with mainly older people - I feel I can contribute quite a bit.

Also getting over the hill myself!

[Community Cohesion]

Follow this link for a summary of the views compiled and circulated to all councillors in advance of this evening's public debate. I think it gives some sense of the real issues and concerns around being old in Southwark, as well as what's good about it:

http://moderngov.southwarksites.com/mgConvert2Pdf.aspx?ID=5968&T=9

As for the e-dealer's question about how old 'older' people are - this reflection by Samuel Ullman sheds some light. Part of it is often attributed to Douglas MacArthur, but he was quoting Ullman:

"Youth is not a time of life?it is a state of mind. It is not a matter of red cheeks, red lips and supple knees. It is a temper of the will; a quality of the imagination; a vigour of the emotions; it is a freshness of the deep springs of life. Youth means a tempermental predominance of courage over timidity, of the appetite for adventure over a life of ease. This often exists in a man of fifty, more than in a boy of twenty. Nobody grows old by merely living a number of years; people grow old by deserting their ideals.

Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul. Worry, doubt, self-distrust, fear and despair?these are the long, long years that bow the head and turn the growing spirit back to dust.

Whether seventy or sixteen, there is in every being?s heart a love of wonder; the sweet amazement at the stars and starlike things and thoughts; the undaunted challenge of events, the unfailing childlike appetite for what comes next, and the joy in the game of life.

You are as young as your faith, as old as your doubt; as young as your self-confidence, as old as your fear, as young as your hope, as old as your despair.

In the central place of your heart there is a wireless station. So long as it receives messages of beauty, hope, cheer, grandeur, courage, and power from the earth, from men and from the Infinite?so long are you young. When the wires are all down and the central places of your heart are covered with the snows of pessimism and the ice of cynicism, then are you grown old, indeed!"

[Community Cohesion]

Oh! I forgot to add:

In case anyone is wondering why some comments posted here haven't been incorporated in the summary of community views, it's simply because they were too late for the deadline. That was originally close of business on Thursday 22 March, which we extended to close of business the following day, Friday 23 March.

I hope you'll find that some of your views are captured in what others have said.

I look forward to utilising this forum regularly and as soon as we have the themed debates agreed from April onwards, I'll be back!

I'd also like to pitch in to seek your views on other issues as they arise.

Michael

[the-e-dealer]

So the Council Remit for this Project is anyone who feels older?

[the-e-dealer]

Community Cohesion Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh! I forgot to add:

>

> In case anyone is wondering why some comments

> posted here haven't been incorporated in the

> summary of community views, it's simply because

> they were too late for the deadline. That was

> originally close of business on Thursday 22 March,

> which we extended to close of business the

> following day, Friday 23 March.

>

> I hope you'll find that some of your views are

> captured in what others have said.

>

> I look forward to utilising this forum regularly

> and as soon as we have the themed debates agreed

> from April onwards, I'll be back!

>

> I'd also like to pitch in to seek your views on

> other issues as they arise.

>

> Michael

So why did you ask for more comments on the 23rd?

[first mate]

CC,

I'm sure you meant that in a good way but it sounded pretty patronising to me. I think old age is rather more than a state of mind- your genes may have something to do with it for starters.

[the-e-dealer]

(S)He isn't going to tell us! I Feel an FOI request coming on

[Community Cohesion]

Why did I ask for comments on the 23rd? Because that was the day we had extended the deadline by. Hence my reference to that being the last day for comments.

[Community Cohesion]

"So the Council Remit for this Project is anyone who feels older?"

It's not the 'council remit'. Like I said, "it sheds some light" i.e. it's one point of view on aging.

[Community Cohesion]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> CC,

>

> I'm sure you meant that in a good way but it

> sounded pretty patronising to me. I think old age

> is rather more than a state of mind- your genes

> may have something to do with it for starters.

It's not my personal view on aging. And it's certainly not the council's. It's just one perspective.

[the-e-dealer]

You are doing work on Older people but are unable to give us an age range?

[the-e-dealer]

Looking at the comments it appears that older means over 60 or of bus pass age.

[Community Cohesion]

the-e-dealer Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You are doing work on Older people but are unable

> to give us an age range?

Well, I'm 52 and I believe I qualify.

As for my work, it involves older people, younger people, somewhere-in-the-middle people, etc.

Meanwhile, the views we gathered of older people are my main interest in this particular discussion and they added a strong note of realism to last evening's debate at The Charter School.

[Community Cohesion]

Oh, I meant to add my full signature to this part of the thread.

I've been trying to change my posting name but can't seem to do it. I'd prefer to publish as me rather than sit behind a banner or pseudonym.

Any help?

[the-e-dealer]

Blimey at a stroke 50% of the EDF became older!