Diversity

[JohnL]

[cella]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> cella Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > For the last time TheCat stop criticising women

> > and adopt a more positive outlook. I'm not

> feeding

> > your habit after this.

>

>

> HaHa...brilliant, now I know for sure that you are

> just a wind-up merchant.

>

> I criticise 1 statement by 1 woman (well, i've

> criticised you as well, so if you're a woman, that

> makes two women i've criticized in this

> thread)...and that means I need to 'stop

> criticising women and adopt a more positive

> outlook'

>

> Okay, sure. Well, I'm an immigrant, and you have

> criticised me. So Cella, for the last time, you

> really need to stop criticising immigrants and

> adopt a more positive outlook. Your anti-immigrant

> agenda is harmful and unproductive.

>

> see...we can all play this ridiculous game:)

You and Philip Davies are cut from the same cloth. I'm hopefully right in that you don't have a partner so can feel free to indulge your rants.

[fishbiscuits]

TheCat Wrote:

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> how can they say this with a straight face when there

> isn't one candidate representative of half the population?

Yes and no... gender is just one criteria you could use to split the population. Ethnicity, class, sexuality, disability... and plenty more besides. You could look at the conservatives for instance, and conclude that they're disproportionately white and privately educated.

You also have to consider the raison d'etre for such a party. Realistically, they're not going to be expecting credible success in a general election. But perhaps they can achieve something valuable through representation in local politics, as well as raising awareness of issues affecting women, and presumably seek to influence mainstream the political narrative. Given these (assumed) aims, I'd argue that male representation is not necessary.

This reminds me a little bit of "black lives matter" vs "all lives matter". Sometimes a marginalized group needs to shout a bit louder to get their voices heard... make the needle overshoot a bit before a system can reach equilibrium. Then a bunch of people completely miss the point and start wailing "but what about me!! I matter too!!"...

[Siduhe]

So, the new leader of the Women's Equality Party makes the claim that their candidate list is the MOST DIVERSE of all political parties....how can they say this with a straight face when there isn't one candidate representative of half the population?

I was intrigued enough to read the article and it seems pretty clear to me that what is being referred to - in the context of an entire article about the appointment of the first black leader of a political party, entitled "We?re not just for middle class white women" - when Mandu Reid says she would venture that the WEP has a more diverse list of candidates than any other party, she's talking about representing women of colour, the LGBTQAI community, women with disabilities or other impairments and women from diverse social classes. You may not agree with what the WEP is trying to do (although it sounds like you do) but cherry picking a sentence in an article without context to make a point seems an odd way to do it.

I also agree that most of the evidence suggests that diverse workplaces make more successful and more productive long term value creating businesses (in contrast, having a more diverse workplace seems to restrict short term strategies and gains which is often held up as examples of why women don't succeed as much in business). But in a politics context, what the WEP are trying to do is balance up the representation of women in a system which is already skewed significantly against them in terms of numbers - as are groups like Women2Win (which is the Conservative group trying to do pretty much the same thing). Are you suggesting that the WEP needs to put forward male candidates in order to meet their aim of improving the number of women representatives in Parliament?

[Siduhe]

This reminds me a little bit of "black lives matter" vs "all lives matter". Sometimes a marginalized group needs to shout a bit louder to get their voices heard... make the needle overshoot a bit before a system can reach equilibrium. Then a bunch of people completely miss the point and start wailing "but what about me!! I matter too!!"...

What he/she said...

[teddyboy23]

Let's try some spelling then cupcake,your a wind up cont,see eye can spill.

[TheCat]

Fishbiscuitre and Siduhue...thank you both for your balanced and on-topic comments...I was beginning to lose hope for this thread:)

Fully aware that 'Diversity' doesn't just mean gender, and I totally conscious that Ms Reid was referring to the various other aspects of diversity.

I am indeed supportive of Womens issues/equality etc - but as with a number of virtuous causes, I sometime get frustrated with the manner in which some stakeholders attempt to achieve their goals (For example, I am a big proponent of supporting methods of tackling climate change, and it was actually my job to try and do just this until quite recently, but dont get me started on the efficacy of direct action with regards to climate change - so I am critical of Extinction Rebellion, but that doesn't mean im a climate change denier (when in fact quite the opposite), it means I think there are better/more effective ways to bring about positive change.

So when groups like the WEP, go about their business largely to the exclusion of men (Men who may indeed be able to offer up some differing perspectives - in particular how the WEP might make its message more appealing to other men for example?) - I find it frustrating - and reading a comment where their diversity is being trumpeted (it wasnt just in this article, they have a press release/section of website dedicated to it as well) - it just irked me somewhat. I would prefer if they said, the 'most diverse group of women' - rather than just the 'most diverse' when comparing themselves to other parties - perhaps it is nitpicking - but this is the type of thing that probably annoys those people who are skeptical of the WEP.

To the point you both have made about the usefulness of the WEP having a male candidate....well...having a male WEP candidate clearly will not improve the gender balance in parliament in the short term, but (just as the sight of female candidates/role models has encouraged other women through the years) perhaps the sight/message of that male candidate will encourage other men to consider these issues more fully? and in the long term is actually a good thing?

[fishbiscuits]

Looking into it further, there are a few male members. I wonder if any of them have ever put themselves forward? It seems unlikely. It would take a brave man indeed to claim he'd make a more suitable candidate (and potential MP), than the female members he'd be standing against.

[seenbeen]

If they wanted to do something valuable they should make sure that ALL schools teach Diversity INCLUDING (now there's an apt word) LGBTQ+ issues especially since tolerance of differences is enshrined in UK Law. Some faith schools I know do not even discuss LGBTQ+ issues but do discuss disability, race equality etc but IGNORE LGBTQ+ and the kids are overtly homophobic at times...and are rarely reprimanded.

LGBTQ+ are PEOPLE too and it's about time that tax-payer funded schools were MADE to introduce the differences in humanity to children- sensitively- from an EARLY age

[Davis]

Is it even legitimate to distinguish between genders according to the current social political context in the UK?