introducing formula?

[nabz]

hi again east dulwich mummys,

Im in need of your help, my little girl has just turned a month old and i was wondering when to introduce formula? atm she is being breast fed exclusively however im feeling rather house bound as i can never seem to leave the house as im feeding on demand! I have the avent electric pump for expressing however i find it completely rubbish! anyone know of a good pump that works fast and effectively? atm i am expressing manually which is going fine however it does take rather long!

Or do you recommend that i carry on breast feeding and introduce formula at a later stage? she has only ever had a bottle once but took to it quite well. do babies that are bottle fed drink quicker then on the breast? and does formula fill their bellys for longer?

any advice on this would be great! or any tips and stories!

Thank you nabz :) x

[jennyh]

Hi

We exclusively formula fed as I had problems with getting baby to latch and problems with my milk supply. i would say that I found formula feeding to be a complete pain because of all the preparation, the sterilising and getting the right temperature etc etc. My baby never drank bottles quickly although maybe some do, and although I think she settled into a feeding pattern quite quickly she still needed a bottle every 2-3 hours at that age. I am sure that many breastfeeding mums will reply with lots of useful advice but from my opinion I think if you can get the hang of breastfeeding in public and of expressing you would do better than trying to introduce formula, asides from the benefits of giving baby breastmilk of course.

Obviously I don't have the experience but it can take a while to establish feeding and so you might find it all slots into place naturally in the coming weeks.

Good luck and congratulations on your baby!

Edited to say that when I was expressing milk in the early weeks (when I had some) I hired a double pump from the chemist on Lordship lane (by the funeral place) and it would be very efficient if you had a good milk supply! otehrwise we used the Avent electric and manual combined pump and found it pretty good.

[Mathilda]

Hi, at 1m my baby was taking 45mins-1hr for a breastfeed and around 20mins for a bottle feed, so yes it can be quicker. She did get much faster at breastfeeding over time, tho I can't remember exactly when this started to happen!

I loved the convenience of breastfeeding but did introduce a bottle per day (formula) at around 6 weeks just to give my body a little break each day, and it was great.

[Pickle]

Technically the fact that you're breastfeeding means it's easier to get out and about, as you don't need to worry about how much milk to take with you! You may find that once you're more confident at feeding you are happy to do it when you're out. Have you thought about meeting up with the winter babies club group of mums? Maybe that would help you feel more at ease feeding in public if with other mums and small babies?

I use the Avent electric pump and find it's good... I find it much quicker if I express at the same time as I give my baby her first feed in the morning - takes a bit of practise to master doing both at once but it's worth it.

My first child was mixed fed and it didn't seem to make much difference in terms of how long he stayed full if he had formula.

Pippa x

[Ruth_Baldock]

Hi Nabz,

*disclaimer, this is just my opinion/experience and I don't for one second claim it to be gospel.

I agree with Pickle entirely. When my first baby was born, I was really apprehensive about breastfeeding in public, and spent the first 6 weeks of his life indoors, basically. It was very frustrating and lonely. When hewas abour 12 weeks old, I snapped, got sick of hiding my breastfeeding away, and fed him in public; and it was fine. Easy peasy, no one noticed, or cared :) Your confidence will soon build and you'll get the hang of it, and also a feed will start to take less time so when you do feed whilst out, it won't take ages and ages (my furst took about 10 minutes by a month, my second is more of a piggy and it took her five minutes of noising snuffling, slupring and grunting)

Personally, if you find breastfeeding easy and a positive experience, then I'd carry on as you are. It's much easier to pop Baby on a boob rather than formula feeding in my experience- my first was mix fed from around 11 weeks. Formula didn't fill him up more/for longer than a breastfeed did, really.

Re: expressing- I had an avent manual, it worked perfectly well but took blooming ages. I invested in a medela swing and it was one of the best baby-related purchases I've ever bought!

[Jo'sEnglish]

The first month is definitely the hardest in times of number of feeds/length of feeds - so well done getting this far! I'd say with that in mind (that you are probably over the hardest part) I'd keep going just breastfed if you can. Are you worried about feeding in public? If so, maybe invest in a cover or some good nursing tops. Once you've done it the first couple of times you will wonder why you ever worried!

Bear in mind that mixed feeding can affect your supply too.

Can't really help with pump, I have oversupply and do fine with a hand pump! But, it is a good idea to keep offering a bottle I think so they are used to it (my 6 month old has no idea what to do with one!)

Good luck and congratulations on your new baby!

[mrs f]

Hello..

firstly well done on bfeeding so far, so many people struggle, I have seen friends first hand (jennyh eg) who haven't managed it at all or have found it really hard but you have got to the 1st hurdle so that's great.

I'd actually think about whether you want to introduce your baby to formula.... or would you prefer to bfeed (for now)? I'm in no way trying to be pushy here but introducing a formula feed now would just complicate things no? in terms of prep etc

Personally, I have had a very very very easy bfeeding journey, having a baby who got the hang of it straight away and is still going strong 11m in so I can vouch for how easy it CAN be.... like people have said, once you are happy to feed in public then it's very handy !-)

I used the medula lactaline (i think that's right?) it's a double pump and very well thought of on here & I certainally found it great, and was in the habbit of expressing every day soon enough & would get around 5oz in 15 or so mins

it does get easier and quicker... believe me if I get 10 mins during the day feed thats long! and my lo has gone from feeding for an hour before bed to 20 mins...

and in the long run it's probably quicker due to the lack of prep you need to do!

We established a routine fairly early on and that worked for us so we could plan our day more easily in terms of going out etc

good luck in whatever you choose to do

[nabz]

thanks everyone!

So far she has managed really well and breastfeeding goes down with no fuss (even though i just came out of hospital with mastitus :( im a bit worried about feeding in public...where do you do it? what if theres no where to sit down? i have some good nursing tops and bras i guess its just putting it into practice! when did you go out first with your little one? im scared shes too small to take out and thats why im thinking of expressing so i can leave once in a while!

i think il have to get the medela swing im so impatient with the avent one i have. i guess breast feeding soley would be much easier then sterilising bottles and prep. i guess im feeling rather rough and tired but hopefully now im past 1 month it will get easier? atm moment i feel like a machine!

more advice welcome!!

nabz

[lucyA1308]

I have the medela, which works very quickly. You can do both boobs at the same time, so double the amount in one go. I personally have always opted for breast feeding (although now I am having trouble getting my baby onto a bottle, which is a whole other story), as I have always liked the convenience of it. Right there when you want it, right temperature, and yes, you can express if you really are shy about being out in public. Most places don't mind - and you get better at being discreet. I remember with my first child, the first time I got out amd met other mums, and how liberating it felt to be out of the house. Go somewhere local first, or maybe a friend's house. Art galleries are also good, because most people are there to look at the art, and will not be at all bothered by what you are doing.

Have fun.

[oimissus]

I exclusively breastfed for a year, and my daughter wouldn't take a bottle either (grrrr!), but that was more a bore for going out by myself. Friends who did some bottle feeding of expressed milk still seemed to mainly breastfeed when out and about with the baby, because, as others said, it's just easier, all you need are your bosoms and a muslin!

If you are feeling self-conscious about it, then I think that a nursing top or a top with stretchy vest underneath is pretty discreet - top up, vest down, baby on boob, away you go with minimal flashing of breast. It took me a few weeks struggling with the latch but once she got that we were well away. Personally I think those big covers draw more attention to you.

I bf'd all over the place: cafes, museums, shops (John Lewis and Peter Jones were favourites), the concourse at Victoria Station, the train, in the car (whilst stationary!), on the grass. Never did it on a bus though. And never got so much as a second glance. You are so mobile with a tiny baby so make the most if it!

[sunbob]

Re getting out of the house- it always feels like one more thing needs doing (feed, change) but I always find that once we get out my son (and couple yrs ago daughter) was perfectly calm and happy, usually went to sleep and I felt so much better. Plan very simple outings to somewhere with chairs or benches eg a walk in the park followed by coffee in the cafe (take fav book/web phone). You may well find that the fresh air helps your baby to sleep for a couple of hours till you get home, rather than the constant feeding that often happens when you're couped up inside.

[chantelle]

Editing my post because I don't think it was very helpful or relevant ... do give it a try to feed when out and about, it just takes a little practice and a scarf draped wherever needed can help with any feelings of exposure.

[snowboarder]

In terms of getting out with baby - maybe even a trip to one of the breastfeeding cafes might get your confidence up? Not sure when/where they are these days (sorry!). Also not sure where you live but Bumps and Babes on a friday at St Faiths on Red Post Hill is one of the few baby groups really aimed at little babies (rather than rowdy toddlers) and most importantly new mums and is a nice supportive environment to get to grips with feeding out. I also had a thrupenny bit portable feeding pillow that I slung in the bottom of my pram and it went everywhere with me and made all the difference in terms of feeding out and about.

Good luck!

[crystal7]

Nabz I sympathise! I am currently breastfeeding my 4 month old 2nd baby and for the first few months it felt like I was feeding him constantly. However when we went out (had to once OH went back to work as have toddler to entertain too) I found he would sleep for hours in the pram and sometimes he'd even stay asleep once we got home. It is hard though, sometimes he'd feed hourly. It has settled down now and he can go 3 hours between feeds (though more often than not it's more like 2!). Would recommend a walk around Peckham Rye and feed/coffee/cake in the cafe! I remember feeding my first baby for the first time in cafe Nero, felt so self conscious faffing around with a muslin over my shoulder but it got so much easier and I don't think twice about it now.

Good luck! It's fab you've got this far especially after a bout of mastitis I had this just before Christmas and it's horrible.

[Pickle]

Nabz, any cafe is fine for feeding, no matter where you are, but especially in East Dulwich. People are either chatting to friends or engrossed in their iPhones so won't take a bit of notice. As the weather gets warmer go to the park with a book and sit under a tree - something you can enjoy with just a baby and no older children to keep tabs on.

I second the recommendation for Bumps and Babes. I went to the Red Post Hill one with my baby a couple of weeks ago. Alice is extremely welcoming, and a lot of people go with tiny babies. I'm planning to go again this coming Friday.

I dont wear special feeding tops, just an old vest underneath whatever top I'm wearing. Top layer pulls up, vest stretches down, so you literally only expose enough for the baby to latch on. I answered the door to the gas meter reader today while feeding (admittedly I kind of forgot she was feeding!) and I honestly don't think he noticed what I was doing.

[mrs f]

I've fed, in cafes (loads!), restaurants, park benches, peoples houses, the car, train stations, sainsburys and recently the tube(!) anywhere with a seat really!

as the weather gets nicer it does get easier as you don't have to buy a drink in a cafe and can sit in the park but after a while you don't think twice about it

Go out with some other brestfeeding mums... I'm sure there is a group - winter babies etc on here? and you won't feel so self consious and soon enough you won't notice

but yes layering is good an top up vest down is a good method. I also perfer the feeding bras where it leaves a bit on the top of the boob if that makes sense for an added bit of privicy...

I've never once had a negative comment and have had several people say "good for you" to me, honestly, people won't stare and are encouraging - especially around here

[Audrey]

Let me tell you about my 'baptism of fire'.

Miss M was 6 days old. Himself Indoors needed to into work for a few hours, so we went out for our first walk, and he was going off to get the bus into the city. Except for some reason he also brought the nappy bag (!) which I had thrown my keys into. I hadnt gone straight home, so he was at his desk when I called. So off we traipsed, for our first bus trip. Traumatic enough, but baby was asleep, all good.

Except that half way up the Walworth road, she starts screaming, so, I took a deep breath, and got stuck in. I was petrified. I was afraid taking her out on a moving bus, didnt really have enough room, but phaffed, moaned, got embarrassed, apologised to everybody (esp the Spanish student beside me, who really couldnt have cared less, but would pob have preferred if I hadnt elbowed him so much). I dont even remember if I had a muslin (sans nappy bag remember), I probably had to wipe her mouth with my top...

Anyway, feeding in public never bothered me after that..... and got to threat himself that if he wanted a man bag that badly, I was sure someone like Richard Hammond could recommend some...... *shudder*

All great advice above, and its def easier than bottle feeding out and about, its always available, sterile and the right temperature!

Good luck, by the sounds of it you'll be fine, tho it might be easier to ease yourself in a little more gently...!

[Saffron]

The longer you can hold off giving formula milk, the better it will be for your baby. Adding formula milk will change Baby's digestion, and can cause related problems like wind etc. I agree with others, if breastfeeding is going fine, keep it up! (tu) :) You're doing brilliant, and it will get easier!! I'm sure there must be some Forum mums who would join you on a breastfeeding outing somewhere local if you need support in public. (I'm not in SE22 anymore, so probably not your nearest, otherwise would be happy to join you at a cafe any time. My little girl is 2+ years and we still do a bit a breastfeeding, though usually not in public anymore. Now she's more interested in running around causing friendly havoc.)

I first breastfed my daughter in public at ~2 weeks old, at the McD's in Peckham while we were flat hunting. Knowing that we had a newborn, our landlady had just told us out-of-the-blue that we had a month to move out, despite previous assurance that we'd have the property another 6mo at least! Her cellar flooded the day before we moved out, and her boiler broke the day after. Instant karma?

Oh, also, if you have a ringsling or similar, it can make breastfeeding in public much easier. There's no mucking about getting the buggy in and out of doorways. Most babies LOVE to sleep in a sling, and with a bit of practice you can actually feed your baby w/out taking the sling off. There are some groups that meet to do sling swaps and try-on sessions. I can't remember when/where. Does anyone else know?

[mima08]

Hi nabz, totally second what people have said before, if you can (and are happy to) bf is sooooo much easier than bottles. Unfortunately I had tons of problems and mix fed from 3weeks, and by 4months my milk had all but disappeared. My LO did not feed any quicker than the babies of my friends who were breastfed, if anything, it took longer and the stress of being over prepared (never mind the costs of cartons) made getting out & about much more difficult. I was really jealous of my bfing friends and if anything, I thought people in ED would stare at me for bottle feeding.... (nobody did, but there is no end to my paranoia....:) Why don't you try a large scarf / shawl you can drape strategically? I am sure you will feel confident in no time - best luck

mx

[Belle]

My first son took a bottle (formula) straight from the fridge/room temp, was happy to be fed anywhere e.g. could do it in buggy if caught short, and slept pretty well from early on. Second son was mix fed for first month then completely formula fed, much fussier: has to be warm, can't feed in buggy really as needs to be in certain position and is a terrible sleeper. So don't think there are any givens with any kind of feeding really! must say with my first esp (diff with second as he's on special formula so can't do cartons, also the temperature thing as above), I never found ff a hassle, only envied the ability to instantly calm a crying child. I just always had one more carton than I thought I'd need and a couple of sterile bottles to hand. With my second, bf went a lot better to begin with and I did like that I could eg walk around or go and find what naughty older brother was doing while feeding, but equally I have been SO grateful for the fact I can let both grandmothers and my husband help with feeds, as we have not had a v smooth ride with my second so I've needed a lot of help. If things had been different when my second was younger, I'd def have tried to keep bf up as I did really enjoy it and as above found v convenient, but (just my opinion) I'd do bottles too (expressed if you'd rather not introduce formula though many babies do both and are perfectly healthy) just to give you some freedom/flexibility. I've had two horrendous bugs in the 5 months since my youngest arrived, the first when he was just 2 weeks old, and when I was in bed immobile with a fever I was just so glad my mum could feed him with the bottle!

[nabz]

awwww belle im sorry to hear that! I had mastitus 2 weeks after having her and was rushed to A&E, first time i left the house lol! so i deffo understand, i had to go to university today so left her with my dad, but seems i didnt express enough and i made one extra bottle of formula just incase...he gave it to her but she rejected it at first but she did have a bit of it...and i hated it! i felt so useless lol and the fact that my boobs were ready to explode lol. i wish i could express faster though :( i have to go again tomorrow for an hour or two and dreading having to manually express!

can anyone recommend a pump that works really fast?

Il deffo try bf in public need to get use to it, after making a bottle of formula took a while! guess its something you have to get used to.

Thank you everyone! iv got to say as iv not left the house properly yet i deffinitly feel a little isolated :( so its nice to know all these other brand new mums are out there! and the more experienced ones ;)

[Saffron]

What time of day are you expressing? Some women have a better milk letdown at different times of day. I think probably forumites Pickle or Fuschia would know more. Also, expressing milk does get a bit better as you get more practice at it.

Can you take your daughter to university with you? I took my daughter (~3 months old) to meetings with my senior tutors and head of dept. They were very good about it.

Hope it all gets easier for you very soon. xx

[Pickle]

Expressing is difficult, it takes practise to do it successfully. I expressed full time for my 1st child for 8 weeks due to a tongue tie so got quite good at it!

The key to expressing quickly is not really the pump you have, but whether you manage to get proper milk letdown. If you dont get letdown (which is what the baby stimulates) you could pump for ages and only get a few mls which is frustrating and sore!

You need to be relaxed - in an ideal world I would express in bed in the morning before doing anything else.

As I mentioned before, the way that works best for me is to express in the morning while feeding my daughter on the other side. I managed to get 100mls in about 5/10 mins this morning using this method, whereas the day before I wasn't feeding her, was a bit stressed, and only got 40mls at the same time of day.

P x

[bluesuperted]

Re babies and uni: I also regularly take my (now rampant) toddler into uni with me and he has always been well received by tutors! I've taken him since he was very small and last week when I went in alone (as his Grannie was down) my tutor was visibly disappointed!! He's even been invited to take part in two child psychology lectures....

Digression! Good luck with pumping, the hospital grade ones are amazing, think you can rent them.

[Belle]

I found the medela pump mentioned above really good first time round (borrowed one), and I found i had to get out of the bustle of the household, up to my bedroom, sit and relax and think about my son (I used to think about when the midwife said 'your baby has black hair' in the delivery room as my son was born, and completely well up with emotion!) - this seemed to work. But I didn't keep it up long, as did find it very hard to find the time. Second time i bought an avent pump which was manual and ok, not as good as the medela though. Totally agree with what pippa says re it being about letdown - I'd notice the difference definitely once it kicked in! I didn't keep it up long this time either, again just too much else to do. I found my supply totally adjusted to mix feeding but perhaps that's because we did have to use quite a bit of formula from early on.

Re formula - the ready made cartons are great and although expensive, prob worth it if you're only doing e.g. one a day? once you get into a system of sterilising a few bottles every 24 hrs it becomes second nature.

Finally, I think you have had a v hard time by the sounds of it. And must be tough needing to go into uni etc. Also agree with Pippa about meeting up with the winter babies mums, if you're feeling isolated - they will all be at the same stage as you which will really help, and I'm sure some of them are experiencing similar issues. I know I found group meets a bit overwhelming first time round (still do a bit now!) so you could perhaps see if anyone's up for a quiet coffee if you prefer? I didn't go out much at all in the first couple of months with my first, but I found that once I'd started it got much much easier. Everything seems so much better if you've had some fresh air and sunlight, and even more so if you've met up with another mum and had a moan about sleep/feeds etc. A month is really no time at all - I don't think I made it to the park till my first was 5 weeks old, and that felt like a major operation! So don't feel too pressured.

You're doing really well, whatever you choose to do re feeding, you should feel proud.

xxx