Dangerous junction ( Peckham Rye and East Dulwich Road)

[Only me!]

This junction is currently dangerous & it is caused almost 100% by poor driving, aggravated by ill thought out sequencing to the lights.

It cannot be beyond the gift of man to phase these lights correctly & safely can it?

E.G. Separate time for Right turn filter from Goose Green direction, maybe with a simultaneous left turn filter from the Barry Road direction.

I'm not the expert here ...... but as a user .... what I do know is .... that what we currently have is poor.

[boomerang]

I also try and avoid a right turn at that junction and would agree with trizza that a filter light is much needed and possibly red light cameras.. I also agree the lighting sequence is out of touch with the volume of traffic it must control. The green light for east/west traffic barley stays green for 20 seconds and sometimes less, which results in traffic banking up EDR back up to the junction at Crystal Palace Road. The situations is also compounded by the 4 way crossing which imho gives too much priority to pedestrians whenever the crossing button is pressed. An easier, cheaper and quick solution is to increase the time for east/west traffic and even without a filter needed sequence the lights opposite to go red a few seconds before so drivers can turn right.

If they can (and they have) fit filter lights at the junction of East Dulwich Rd and Crystal Palace Rd then why the hell not at this junction which obviously needs it more urgently.

[henryb]

Why not have a round-about with zebra crossings like at the junction with LL? Works very well even at busy times.

[kitemonkey]

There was a mobile camera car pointing at the junction from the peckham rye side of forest hill road for weeks although haven't seen it recently. Not sure why it was positioned there though as nearly all the light jumping I've seen is from ED road?? I wonder if the camera car was there just to record the problem, as it obviously wouldn't get number plates for issuing fines... seems a bit stupid

[tomsav]

I drive through there every day as well, south to north up Peckham Rye in the morning then back again at night. In my experience it would just take the addition of a pause of maybe 10 seconds between the E/W lights turning red and the N/S ones turning green to allow the junction to clear before the traffic starts moving.

I would also add that I've never seen anyone jump the lights there. I must be lucky. But I do see the N/S traffic setting off while the E/W traffic is still all over the place, but that's because the lights have changed too early.

[vivienne]

maybe they could stop digging and re digging up the roads by the old coop and get rolling !

[Nicholas]

Hi I'm local driving intructor.Yes I totally agree that on many occasions those lights don't even let one vehicle through, so annoying and that is why some impatient idiots jump the lights. That could be said for many traffic lights, only letting one or two vehicles through at the time so the timing of the lights is crutial. The other problem is you get buses turning right so your vision is totally obscured. I agree that junction needs a camera and a filter light. The southwark camera car, I'm not sure if it picks light dodgers. I think it's for vehicles in bus lanes and who turn right when shouldn't at that junction.

Nicholas Driving Academy SE22

[seanareprawn]

I drive through this junction all the time in the various directions and always get frustrated when turning right onto peckham rye as it always seemed the nunhead traffic was skipping the lights.

Then it dawned on me that the actual problem is that the lights coming from the Nunhead direction are actually set quite far back from the junction itself. This means that people coming from that direction legally cross the white line when the lights are not red but don't reach the junction for a second or so later. Making it look like they've jumped the lights to drivers coming in the opposite direction.

I reckon it's as simple as moving those lights and their white line forward a bit to stop the confusion.

[Me'mate'Dave]

but then people will still be jumping the lights to turn right onto Peckham Rye to try and get through as there is rarely an opportunity to do it legally!!!

It needs a right turn filter or better simply have the lights stay on for an extra 6 or 7 seconds when coming from East Dulwich

It seems such a simple thing to do

[Renata Hamvas]

There is another thread about the same junction lower down the page!

To repeat what I have said on the other thread, surveys have been done and plans drawn up for this junction. They are currently with TFL awaiting approval. Nothing is going to happen until after the Olympics/paralympics!

Renata

[Me'mate'Dave]

Olympics/Paralympics are now but a distant but much cherished memory

...and I nearly saw a pile up at this junction yesterday.

Any news?

[Brian Tee]

My conversation with the council engineer responsible for the current (unwanted) traffic calming measures in Scutari Road (see other live thread on ED forum) has revealed that the traffic lights at the junction you refer to are to be somehow synchronised with the lights on the other side (Honor Oak) of the park on East Dulwich Road, and also the soon to be renewed lighting/crossing system at Colyton Rd/Forest Hill Road crossroads (Includes Dunstans Rd).

I completely agree that traffic behaviour at these lights is often terrifying, especially if you are turning into Forest Hill Road from East Dulwich Road. I would also point a finger of shame at the many cyclists who choose to ignore the traffic lights. There should be a criminal penalty for this sort of reckless disregard for other road users and pedestrians, but that's a whole other rant!!!

[henryb]

At most junctions car/van drivers violate the rules more often than cyclist do. I see car drivers stop on the boxed section and jump the lights every time I am there. Of pedestrians injured by collisions caused by red light jumping in London only 4% are injured by cyclists over 70% are injured by car drivers.

But I agree the junction is terrible and the high accident rate is indicative of that.

[Brian Tee]

Matter of Highway code 'correctness, here Henry. If you are turning right on a boxed section, you are completely entitled to enter it and wait for an opportunity to turn. It should only be kept clear for traffic travelling straight across. Just goes to show how cyclists aren't up to the mark when it comes to following the rules of the road.

Get a coppy of the highway code, and abide by it. Even if you do that, as a cyclist, you are still vulnerable - especially if you wear dull clothing/ride in an inappropriate position/don't use lights/ignore traffic lights/pedestrian crossings etc.

As stated on another thread, I was a victim of a glancing side collision with a car in central London while wearing bright racing gear, and turning in a correct manner into a one way feed that left me with a severe head injury, as it planted me straight into the back of a parked car. I was not in the wrong at any stage, but was left with a fractured skull, almost lost my right eye, and also demolished my beautiful hand built Condor race frame.

I really get annoyed when cyclists who so consistently flout traffic management signs and signals moan about cars that are doing the exact opposite. From my own painful experience, which I would never wish on anyone else, I can only express a wish that cycling should be more regulated, with proper road training, insurance and possibly road tax as a component of legitimate road presence.

[henryb]

> I really get annoyed when cyclists who so

> consistently flout traffic management signs and

> signals moan about cars that are doing the exact

> opposite.

When has that happened?

The point is car jumping red lights far bigger problem (18 times) in terms of actual injuries than cyclist jumping red lights. Complaining about cyclist jumping red light yet saying nothing about car drivers jumping the lights or breaking other rules is indicative of a distorted view of what the worst road safety problems are.

Of the 20+ accidents there have been at that junction in the last 10 years how many were caused by cyclists?

[katanita]

>

> I really get annoyed when cyclists who so

> consistently flout traffic management signs and

> signals moan about cars that are doing the exact

> opposite. From my own painful experience, which I

> would never wish on anyone else, I can only

> express a wish that cycling should be more

> regulated, with proper road training, insurance

> and possibly road tax as a component of legitimate

> road presence.

Ah, the old road tax canard, can we please put that one to bed? http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3311131.ece

And yes of course cyclists are subject to the same rules as everyone and should follow them. Doesn't seem to be the real issue here though? More importantly, did you get any sense of timings for this work from the council engineer you spoke to?

[Renata Hamvas]

I will chase up, thanks for reminding me, me'mate'Dave.

Renata

[Toby Tobias]

Just to add my bit to this very long thread - many months ago having explained the problem to TfL I suggested that they change the sequence of lights so that cars turning right from EDR to Peckham Rye would have more time to do so. TfL said the traffic lights were a matter for Southwark Council. I then contacted Southwark Council and they said the traffic lights were a matter for TfL! At this point I gave up and now go a different route....

[panda boy]

Renata,

There must be a way of fast tracking the 'awaiting approval' process you describe.

This is a dangerous junction, full stop.

Something has to happen to reduce the risks.

It is simply unbelievable there have been accidents and deaths at this junction and action is still waiting approval.

Unbelievable inaction from the council on this.

[Medley]

I don't get this line of argument - how would all you call for (training etc.) have stopped the idiot driver who sideswiped you?

My sympathies on the crash, which sounds awful.

The junction under discussion is clearly an utter disaster, and I wish I was surprised that it takes so long to do something about it.

Brian Tee Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Matter of Highway code 'correctness, here Henry.

> If you are turning right on a boxed section, you

> are completely entitled to enter it and wait for

> an opportunity to turn. It should only be kept

> clear for traffic travelling straight across. Just

> goes to show how cyclists aren't up to the mark

> when it comes to following the rules of the road.

>

>

> Get a coppy of the highway code, and abide by it.

> Even if you do that, as a cyclist, you are still

> vulnerable - especially if you wear dull

> clothing/ride in an inappropriate position/don't

> use lights/ignore traffic lights/pedestrian

> crossings etc.

>

> As stated on another thread, I was a victim of a

> glancing side collision with a car in central

> London while wearing bright racing gear, and

> turning in a correct manner into a one way feed

> that left me with a severe head injury, as it

> planted me straight into the back of a parked car.

> I was not in the wrong at any stage, but was left

> with a fractured skull, almost lost my right eye,

> and also demolished my beautiful hand built Condor

> race frame.

>

> I really get annoyed when cyclists who so

> consistently flout traffic management signs and

> signals moan about cars that are doing the exact

> opposite. From my own painful experience, which I

> would never wish on anyone else, I can only

> express a wish that cycling should be more

> regulated, with proper road training, insurance

> and possibly road tax as a component of legitimate

> road presence.

[Only me!]

There have been oodles of mostly sensible posts on here for many many months, years even, about this junction.

Members of the Council are aware & swift to offer words of comfort. "In hand", "consultation under way", "plans drawn",

"waiting till after the Olympics" to quote but a few .....

BUT

The fact that there is still NOTHING happening is clear proof that a blatantly dangerous junction, with lights phased by somebody who has never actually sat & watched the flow of the place, identifies that it/we/road users just don't seem to matter.

What's up? Nobody who votes in Southwark been run over yet?????

If there was a live mains cable sticking up from the pavement that shocked even one passer by .... it would be fixed pronto..... Immediately even!

Why not the proven dangerous phasing of these lights??????

If somebody in a position of responsibility would like to cease with the many weasel words & actually DO something .... it would be greatly appreciated.

[DJKillaQueen]

I've pointed this out before but just to clarify, this junction IS part of the TFL two year funded improvements scheme. Consultation took place the year before last so works should be imminent. It would be useful if either TFL and/ or the council could deliver a schedule, which surely by now must be in place.

It's also worth pointing out that the works to the juction of Scylla Road and Peckham Rye and to the Eastern side of Peckham Rye were part of the same consultation and they have been completed. The juction of Barry Road and Peckham Rye West was also part of the same consultation but no work has been done their either.

I think it's more a case of the most heavily used junctions being left til last tbh. After all...most easy diversionary routes, whilst the work takes place have been blocked off as no through roads and I'm guessing residents will not like their streets being reinstated as rat runs whilst work take places. The blocking off of all the ED side streets around this junction is also a reason why this junction is so heavily used. It frankly just can't cope with the amount of useage at peak times, and no amount of tinkering with lights etc is going to change that.

[Medley]

hear hear about the volume of traffic

and how can it possibly all take 2 years?!

[DJKillaQueen]

Because TFL issues funding for road improvements on a two year rolling basis. So the next round of bids if memory serves me correctly should be due soon. It's a substantial amount of money on offer for major improvements, so only right that local authorities take advantage of it. What I can't understand in this case is who is slow rolling, TFL? or the Council?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

If they removed the tiddly bit of bus lane (east to west) that would ease up the flow.