Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?

[sally buying]

I have been told that so far only 8,000 people in Southwark have signed up for the brown bin.

[Callie]

Does anyone have a picture of the garden waste bags? ?15 for 20 seems very expensive to me especially as they were previously free and does that mean we still have to pay the 25 on top for having them collected?

[Siduhe]

Callie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Does anyone have a picture of the garden waste

> bags? ?15 for 20 seems very expensive to me

> especially as they were previously free and does

> that mean we still have to pay the 25 on top for

> having them collected?

I ordered some recently, so will post a picture when they arrive. The ?15 includes the cost of collecting them, so nothing more to pay - you still need to book a collection separately and they will only collect from the household that ordered the bags.

[Callie]

Thanks that would be great. I?m still putting my garden waste in the brown bin till they stop collecting it.

[Siduhe]

Callie, photos of the folded bag package attached - basically they are exactly the same bags you used to be able to pick up for free at the libraries. Let me know if you want to see one unfolded.

To be fair - the delivery of the bags was super efficient - next day delivery after ordering. However - the package of bags won?t fit through a standard letterbox and it appears they want you to sign for the delivery. Luckily there was someone at home today but there normally wouldn?t be - so not quite sure how that is going to work for those households where everyone is at work during the day.

[Ruffler]

We finally got our separate brown caddy style bin which I?ve been using for food waste but this wasn?t emptied yesterday.

They did empty the tiny amount of garden waste that was in the big brown bin but left a week?s worth of stinking food waste in the hot sun for another week!

^ ^ UPDATE - I reported the non collection and they did come back on Monday to empty the food waste!

[snoopy17]

Even if you report non collection, they won't collect it until the next time that they Normally come

[Penguin68]

Even if you report non collection, they won't collect it until the next time that they Normally come

In the 30+ years I have lived here in ED (same house) specific collections have only been missed on a couple of occasions, and have been remedied in 24-48 hours (next day or the day after). Maybe I've been lucky.

[snoopy17]

you have been lucky, now and again they miss my bin and they collect it the next time as there is no point in sending the lorry out for one bin.

[snoopy17]

council workers came in a van today and took everyones brown bin who lived across the road from me. it was around 25 houses and not one pperson paid for the new service.

[herne hilly]

Thanks for the update. might try and fill mine one last time ;-)

[keano77]

The bin men emptied the brown bins today. Mine had garden waste and the bin men emptied my food waste caddy as well as two of my neighbours? caddies into my bin and then emptied it all into the cart.

1. Waste of time me separating food waste into the caddy

2. I?ve paid ?25 for a sticker and the bin men are putting food waste of others who haven?t paid into my bin

3. Who will own any maggots that appear in my brown bin in hot weather if several people?s food waste has been put in my bin by the bin men?

[Callie]

stating the obvious, the system just isn't working, why have a separate food bin if it all gets thrown together with the garden waste \0/ Waste collections have gone downhill. I definitely won't be getting a food waste caddy & messing around with that. Today my blue bin was emptied but my blue recycling box wasn't? I will be reporting a missed collection but I won't hold my breath as that system isn't working properly either.

[Callie]

Siduhe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Callie, photos of the folded bag package attached

> - basically they are exactly the same bags you

> used to be able to pick up for free at the

> libraries. Let me know if you want to see one

> unfolded.

>

> To be fair - the delivery of the bags was super

> efficient - next day delivery after ordering.

> However - the package of bags won?t fit through a

> standard letterbox and it appears they want you to

> sign for the delivery. Luckily there was someone

> at home today but there normally wouldn?t be - so

> not quite sure how that is going to work for those

> households where everyone is at work during the

> day.

>

> https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/file.php?

> 5,file=331263

> https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/file.php?

> 5,file=331264

thank you for posting the photos :) Wasn't expecting it to be the same old paper bags. I haven't made up my mind what to do yet.

[Metallic]

What a waste of plastic. You order a larger food caddy and they deliver it with the small one inside even though we already have those. This week a couple of my neighbours couldn't find where the dustmen had chucked their food caddy once it was emptied. Who knows?!!

[Marmora]

It took more than one month to get a reply from the council and the only reason I got a reply is because I emailed our MP but here it is for you to view the reply... Feel free to email the council....

Thank you for your email which has been passed to me for a response. I am sorry that you haven?t had any responses to your previous emails. I have answered each of your questions using your numbering and trust that this will give you all the information you have been seeking.

1. Can you confirm that the rubbish collection (blue, green and brown) has been included in our council tax until your new proposal?

Yes ? the service is funded primarily from council tax and government grants, and continues to be free for general waste and dry recyclable collections, along with other services such as hazardous and clinical waste collection from households. The law allows discretionary charges to be made for provision of some household waste services including garden waste. A decision has been taken to introduce a charge for garden waste collection from 2019/20 onwards ? this approach is already in place in the many councils which provide a garden waste collection service.

2. Can you confirm that this is a way to increase further more the council tax as all the bins collections were included until now?

This is not a change to council tax. The collection of garden waste is a discretionary service for which the council can choose to make a charge. This has been the legal position since the Environment Act 1990. In 2019/20 the council took a decision to make a charge for the first time as part of the annual budget setting process.

3. If you feel that some resident do not use the brown bin service, why not reduce their council tax as the bin service is included in the council tax?

The Council has no power to reduce council tax for households not using particular services in this way. Council tax is a property tax based on the value banding of the property and levied according to nationally fixed rules ? it is not a service charge made for the provision of services, and the council has very limited powers to make local changes.

4. Can you confirm that this is an extra tax on people who maintain their garden as an eco friendly space, contributing to allow birds, bees, insects and many endangered species in London to live?

The introduction of a charge for the collection of garden waste does not affect how any resident chooses to maintain their garden. The most environmentally sustainable way of managing garden waste is to compost it within the garden, and use the resulting compost in the garden. We have provided many thousands of home composting bins for this purpose already, and many residents already compost their own waste in preference to having it collected. Not only does this minimise transport impacts in collecting and managing waste, it recycles nutrients back into the soil; the compost heaps provide habitat for a range of insects and fungi; and home composting minimises the overall carbon impacts of managing the waste.

5. Can you confirm that by introducing this new charge, you are encouraging residents with a garden, to pave their front and back garden, therefore contributing to destroying the planet?

No ? the council is not encouraging residents to pave their gardens.

6. You are telling people to separate food waste and garden waste in different bins:

6.1. Does it mean that there will be a different collection for food waste bins?

6.2. If it is the case, isn?t it an extra cost for the council for nothing as it ends up in the same place?

6.3. Veolia staff are telling residents that the food bins and brown bins will be collected by the same truck, so why ask people to have two bins?

We expect that a separate collection for food and garden waste will be required in the next few years, with food waste and garden being composted through different processes. This change begins the process of providing separate collections, and although we will initially co-collect both waste types in the same vehicle, this is not expected to continue in the longer term. Separate collection and different treatment routes for food and garden waste are already an aim of the London Environment Strategy, and the government centrally has recently consulted on national measures to implement this approach.

7. By introducing this extra tax you are also encouraging residents not to separate their garden waste to their green bin?s waste?

Garden waste is not collected in green residual waste bins. If residents present significant quantities of garden waste in their residual waste bins they may be treated as contaminated and not collected. Residents should either compost their garden waste themselves, bring it at no charge to the Househld Waste Recycling & Reuse Centre, or use one of the paid services for collection of garden waste that are provided by the council.

8. With this tax, you are also encouraging people to steal stickered brown bins?

Collection stickers include the address of the address serviced. This helps ensure that people get their own bins back, and if stolen, they can be recovered and returned to their rightful owner.

9. How are you going to deal with stickered brown bins stealing?

See Q6 above

10. What information will be printed on the stickers as residents do not want their address and name on their bin?

Names are not included, but addresses are ? not least to prevent theft. Given that the bin will be located at the address to which it relates, printing the address on the sticker will clearly not breach any confidentiality.

11. How will you be renewing stickers of stolen bins?

Where a bin is stolen and reported by the resident, a duplicate sticker will be issued to the resident with a replacement bin ? unless the missing bin can be identified elsewhere and returned.

12. Can you confirm how the council will dispose of the unused brown bins collected in an environmental friendly way and explain this way?

Many of the bins recovered from non subscribing households will be retained, and cleaned for re-issue. Those which are damaged or not required will be returned to the bin manufacturer. The bins are then shredded, and the plastic is granulated and cleaned for remanufacture into new bins.

13. The streets of Southwark are littered with bins which are left on pavements all week long, obstructing the way, smelling and being an eyesore, what is the council doing so that people move their bins from pavements and keep them in their property until the collection day?

Not all residents have suitable storage space within their property for storage of bins. The council takes a practical view with regards to bin storage and will normally take action to remove where the bins cause an obstruction or have other adverse impacts on the local area. If bins are withdrawn, residents would be obliged to present their household waste in bags, and this might result in vermin having access to the waste and increase mess on the pavements, so we would seek to take a balanced view that takes account of these factors. Where residents do have suitable space for storing bins and have left them on the pavement for an extended period, the council reserves the right to remove them entirely.

Whilst I fully appreciate that your preference would be that the council provide this service without making a charge, the decision to charge for collection of garden waste is not one that has been taken lightly. It has been necessary to introduce a charge to avoid the need for reductions in other areas of service, as the council must balance its expenditure and income across a range of important services.

With best regards

Caroline

Caroline Bruce

Strategic Director of Environment & Leisure

Southwark Council

160 Tooley Street | London SE1 2QH

Email: [email protected]

www.southwark.gov.uk

[AbDabs]

"We expect that a separate collection for food and garden waste will be required in the next few years"

Seriously? So the small (and smaller) brown bins are a complete waste of plastic for anyone who has a big brown bin and has paid for the garden waste service.

[Marmora]

Yes it is!

[Siduhe]

MM's post reminded me of a point that James Barber raised a few pages ago - what the exact legal basis is for Southwark and other councils charging for collecting garden waste. It took me a while but I have found the piece of legislation that allows them do so this, and it seems pretty clear:

It's in Schedule 1, section 4 of The Controlled Waste (England and Wales) Regulations 2012

The Controlled Waste (England and Wales) Regulations 2012

Household waste for which collection and disposal charges may be made

4.(1) The second column of the table in this paragraph describes waste which is household waste (by virtue of section 75(5) of the Act) or waste which is to be treated as household waste (by virtue of paragraph 2 or 3).

(2) The third column indicates which household waste is prescribed for the purposes of section 45(3) of the Act (cases in respect of which a charge for collection may be made).

No.3, Description of household waste (Garden Waste), Collection charge (Yes), Disposal charge (No, subject to entries 11 to 17)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/811/made

[katanita]

Has anyone had any luck with the Garden Waste Bag system?? I ordered some in November that still haven't arrived (apparently they can take up to 15 working days which already seems ridiculously slow, but this is way past that now). Had some feeble non-help via the Southwark twitter account so called the council today today to be told I couldn't speak to the relevant team directly, but they could put in a request which should be dealt with within 7-15 working days (insert eyeroll here).

Wondering if I'm just unlucky?

Meanwhile, my little garden is weeks past the usual pruning date and it's probably going to make a mess of my lovely plants when I do it so late :(

[Callie]

just put it in a black bin bag in the green bin if you can't wait, that is what I would do

[RickB]

I need to contact Southwark re. our complicated garden waste subscription situation - basically no sticker delivered despite sub paid in October - my phone calls are getting us nowhere!

Can anyone confirm that the correct email is [email protected], or would it be [email protected]?

[trinidad]

why not send the email to both.

[RickB]

Oh I have - no answer for weeks. And we?ve been brown bin-less since October, despite paying our sub. It?s like being stuck in a loop with no way out, utterly hopeless!

[kiera]

RickB - This is the sort of issue your councillor/s should be able to sort out for you.