cv's

[zeban]

womanofdulwich, quids advice really doesn't apply to you. I'd say that's only good advice for jobs in private business

[????]

Rubbish Zeban.

Just think of personal achievements at work and demonstrate them, whatever you do. It makes a difference - you asked if your CV need seeded sharpening up and then say it's all bullshit??/. Welcome to a tough world - make your CV standout by highlighting your true (Ie not made up) achievements whatever they may be. If you can't say you haven't made a personal difference to something in 20 years of work, well, I dunno.

100s of CVs just have what responsibilities and job titles were/are - tell people how you personally would and have make a difference.

Call it bullshit but you have to sell yourself whatever job you apply for. Don't like that, then work for yourself.

Sales lecture over.

[????]

Womanof d - what qualities do you think they are looking for in people with not much experience?

Presumably - patience, intelligence, ability toi listen emphasise, initaitaive, discipline, etc (you'd know better than me)

Give real examples from your past career (whatever it was) that demonstrate you have these qualities...it may even be the cryining in toilets thing :)

[womanofdulwich]

Well quids I have now said that I have had 100% success with all my grads qualifying. (tu)I have also instigated dept meetings etc despite much reluctance on the part of others and they are still happening after 10 years (tu)- I think that what you mean.

But other things like patience, interest in people are not measurable.I am not going down the crying in the toilets bit! I googled skills based cv and that was really interesting- I had not heard of that and it makes much more sense . Modern job applications are pretty souless on the www. Especially if you haev not had to apply for a job for 20 years...

Thanks everyone,especially Tuffy.

[El Pibe]

I actually find a surfeit of 'and i was brilliant at that' and 'i used that skill in this situation' massively off-putting and those sorts of CVs slip down the pile.

But then I guess maybe that's the techie nature of what I do, I don't care if you claim you're great, I just want to know if you can actually do what you say you can do.

I've lost count of the number of interviews that collapse at the first sign of a simple technical question "can you return all the benchmarks that aren't being used by a portfolio"?.

I always keep Paula Bean as my morality tale of how bad things can get if you don't actually find out before employing them.

[????]

To be frank El Pibe - what do you look for then - just what qualifications people have? I think you're confusing bullshit with actually highlighting achievements.

Whilts on a CV it may be bulshit but that's what an interview is for but among 100s of CVS I want a demonstartion of what people have done/achieved that's relevant, they've got far more chance of an interview than This was my job title - this was my responsibility type CVs

[El Pibe]

I don't care about 'achievement' I just care if you can actually do what you claim you can. In my industry there is a lot of blag.

IME the greater the self hype the weaker the technical skills/business knowledge.

My CV is very short and very dry but I got a job after being made redundant a year ago in a bad market so other geeks must think like I do.

[????]

You're confusing actual achievement with your inverted commas 'achievement' and 'self hype'. as you call them. Just how does one pick candidates from a dry these are my qualifications, here's my job titles, these are my responsibilities 'dry' CV? Name? Type face used? Pointing out achievements to suit a role is not some arragant bullshit it's just showing what you are capable of and skills that you have that may suit the role. If it's all bullsh1t the recruiter may as well randomly pick 8 Cvs and bring them in for a grilling...

If I'm looking for a loft conversion Fred Bloogs builder, or Fred Bloggs, loft conversion specialist with over 20 years experience...er, know which I'm going to at least give a chance to quote in a crowded market

[El Pibe]

Ease off the Stella quids.

Can you do your job? Anything else is superfluous. Not sure what your problem is but I suspect it says more about you than it does me. ;-)

[El Pibe]

I should add to say it may be a crowded market but it's very difficult to find anyone with the right combination of skills, so the top 8 are usually self selecting.

[womanofdulwich]

Shall I meet one of you in the toilets at lunch time on MOnday??;-)

[????]

Oh god give me strength. Just stick to a dry this is what my qualifications are, these are my job titles and everything eles is bullshit technique of El Pibe and see how far it gets you. WTF is the Stella comment about El Pibe? Seriously. I'm just trying to genuienely help someone shape up their CV, which was their original request whereas you seem to think everyone can sail along on with no demonstartion of their achievements. You are wrong on this.

" Not sure what your problem is but I suspect it says more about you than it does me." FFS. And a smiley doesn't make that sort of crap ok.

you say

"Can you do your job?". er that's what putting your acheievements down is nmeant to demonstarte on a CV - is it that uncomprehensible to you????

WTF is your problem? Serioulsy and no Smiley thing.

Fuck off on the Stella comment - I suspect I've recruited far more people than you so don't dimsiss my views with

such a cHaep comment, you're hardly mister temperance are you?

I'm trying to be helpful, you're just being an arrogant "i'm above having to sell myself" prick.Seriously, what is your problem?

Amen

[????]

Well quids I have now said that I have had 100% success with all my grads qualifying. I have also instigated dept meetings etc despite much reluctance on the part of others and they are still happening after 10 years - I think that what you mean.

BTW Womanofd, these are both great examples and well worth putting in and can make a difference. Good luck.

[Huguenot]

Quids makes good points, as do others - but it particularly highlights the fact that there's no 'right' answer.

When I'm trying to get people to cooperate I have to spend a lot of time thinking about who they are and what their motivations are. Someone suggested a series of pigeon holes to me a few years ago that seem to be a nice way of putting it, classifying people as analyticals, amiables, drivers or expressives.

Quids is a driver, and likes his information delivered in a way that reflects that. I do too.

Sending a CV in the post is a lottery - you don't know the recipient, and 75% of them aren't going to like what you write whatever you do because it just won't suit them.

If you want to improve your chances, try getting to know several people who are already in the job of receiving CVs such as yours and ask them what impresses them.

Remember that a CV only has one task to perform - to get you the interview. It's not there to be your memoirs, and it has to get your skills across.

If you wanted a job with me you'd need to write the kind of CV that Quids describes, but then I'm not a headmaster's secretary.

Mind you, if you really want the job a CV isn't always the right answer. If I want a job I usually take the poor victim to dinner and then tell them they're an idiot for three hours ;-)