Greendale development / DHFC

[bels123]

Unfortunately I couldn?t attend the open day a few weeks ago, please could someone summarise what the plans are or provide a link if any detailed plans are now available? Any updates on timeline would also be appreciated.

Thanks

[Clifton]

Try this: http://www.championhillproposals.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Meadow-Dulwich-Exhibition-boards-web.pdf

[mikeb]

Could someone more informed than me highlight the key changes vs previous plans? At the moment, I'm afraid I still fail to see why the Greendale site should be developed at all.

[bels123]

Thank for the link.

I?m concerned about the loss of the existing AstroTurf - this is much needed open space, well away from the traffic and much loved by many locals. More accessible too since the council put in the new pathways.

Am I right in thinking it?s Metropolitan Open Land?

[creditwheredue]

The Astro isn't, the area around it is.

[goldilocks]

Does anyone who was at the drop in know if there are any more detailed plans than on this 'glossy leaflet' please?- its not easy to see exactly whats being proposed and whether any of the development will impinge on the MOL.

[BrandNewGuy]

We won't know until the planning applications are made (one for the current ground's footprint and one for Green Dale). It seems that that will happen later than the developers hoped, as I believe several issues were raised at the first pre-application meeting between Southwark Council, the developers and DHFC which might take some time to address.

[goldilocks]

Thank you!

[AylwardS]

Meadow are holding a second exhibition on 10 & 11 April from 4.30 - 7.30.

Doesn?t look to be much more detail, maybe slightly less housing. We need the planning application for any detail and all it says is it will go in after the exhibition.

Www.championhillproposals.com

[Abe_froeman]

There is quite a lot of detail here. 230 new houses is still a huge development.

http://www.championhillproposals.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Meadow-Dulwich-Exhibition-boards-web.pdf

[mikeb]

Those are pretty cynical proposals. I do wish they would stop calling a path ?a public realm? or ?linear park?.

Why are we planning to give a property developer a windfall from rezoning public land? Southwark Council already did this in the 1990s when they last approved the redevelopment of DHFC?s ground, and a reduction in local green space. How many times do we need to do this? until there is none left?

By covenant, in the control of Southwark Council, the land for the ground can only be used for sporting and recreational purposes. I don?t even know why we are contemplating changing this. It only gives Meadow more hope that they will succeed. We may as well be discussing the redevelopment of Goose Green.

While we?re at it, St Francis?s Park - which is the main community improvement from the last redevelopment - just shows how cynical this whole business is. I can?t think of a less appealing local park, or one which is looked after with less love. Even Nunhead Green is now a more pleasant place to spend time.

[Abe_froeman]

Who is responsible for the upkeep of St Francis Park?

[Vik]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Who is responsible for the upkeep of St Francis

> Park?

Sainsburys.

[mikeb]

I think Clause 9 of Sch 4 of the 1992 s106 deed says that the responsibility lies with Kings and Sainsbury's.

This is on numbered page 29 here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4Ht_hAPixkZM0xZM1dkdWJqbmc/view, taken from here: http://www.friendsofdkhwood.org/greendale/green-dale-past-planning-applications/

The "Public Open Space" is St Francis's Park, as shown on the plan at the end.

But the point is a little wider than that: clause 3 sets out the obligations in respect of the park - shrubs, grassed areas, bins, fountains, statues (??). And yes the park has "shrubs" but only in the most basic sense - I think the whole park is covered by that ground hugging evergreen shrub. I can't believe the park represents the hopes and visions of the councillors at the time.

Does anyone believe Meadow will be less cynical?

[Galileo]

I tried last year to engage with Sainsburys about St Francis Park and they took ages to respond then said I should speak with the council. I need to respond to them and remind them it is their responsibility.

[Earl Aelfheah]

mikeb Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Those are pretty cynical proposals. I do wish they

> would stop calling a path ?a public realm? or

> ?linear park?.

>

> Why are we planning to give a property developer a

> windfall from rezoning public land? Southwark

> Council already did this in the 1990s when they

> last approved the redevelopment of DHFC?s ground,

> and a reduction in local green space. How many

> times do we need to do this? until there is none

> left?

>

> By covenant, in the control of Southwark Council,

> the land for the ground can only be used for

> sporting and recreational purposes. I don?t even

> know why we are contemplating changing this. It

> only gives Meadow more hope that they will

> succeed. We may as well be discussing the

> redevelopment of Goose Green.

>

> While we?re at it, St Francis?s Park - which is

> the main community improvement from the last

> redevelopment - just shows how cynical this whole

> business is. I can?t think of a less appealing

> local park, or one which is looked after with less

> love. Even Nunhead Green is now a more pleasant

> place to spend time.

This ^

[Wanderer1]

I've only just searched on the Forum for this as it is something that concerns me (the state of St Francis Park and the proposed scheme at Dulwich Hamlet) and I'd been doing some - fruitless - chasing in my own over the last few months on with regards to St Francis Park. Therefore, it's made interesting reading. I totally endorse the points made by 'mikeb' about the cynical nature of the proposed public space provision in the Meadow planning application.

From my reading of things, this is a really good/ important time to be chasing the Council/ Sainsbury's (and potentially Meadow) on how the existing St Francis Park needs to be improved and to make sure that something similar doesn't happen with the new planning applications. In terms of where I've got to:

- I have been passed around by Sainsbury's customer services over the last months (Galileo - your post pretty much answers the question about who is responsible).

- I emailed the 2 local Councillors 2 weeks ago and haven't yet had a response to the below. I mentioned in it that I put a bid together (in 2018 for Southwark Council funding to improve the park that was unsuccessful):

St Francis Park (and the green fringes of Sainsbury's car park) have significant levels of litter, relatively few litter bins and are generally not very well maintained. Whilst the park is 'ok', it could be so much better and less of a glorified cut through to Sainsbury's. I've had an interest in this for a while but not done anything about it until I submitted a bid to the Cleaner Greener Safer Capital Programme 2019/20 (reference number is 1119251). This was unsuccessful.

From a bit of research I understand that the park is managed by Sainsbury's.

On this basis, I've just emailed Sainsbury's to ask them what they are doing. I think that there are some relatively simple things (e.g. a few new litter bins, actually shutting the park) as well as some things which are a bit more aspirational but would make significant improvement to the park. I went to the planning exhibition for the proposal for the Dulwich Hamlet stadium and asked the applicant whether they planned to fund improvements to the park as part of any Section 106 package; they did not have plans to do so.

A few questions which would be useful to understand if you know:

- Am I correct in thinking that this is not a Council run park?

- Is Meadow being pushed to improve the park as part of any applications (this would seem fair enough to me on the basis of this being the 2nd stab at reducing MOL given that the park was originally built for this purpose in the early 90s)?

-Any ideas/ thoughts you are pursing to improve the park.

Anyway - I thought that it would be useful to share this if others have also chased on this matter. I've just chased the Councillors and if I get no response will try and thing of some way to escalate it!!

[Guest]

Last year I was in contact with Sainsburys and the contractor to sort out St Francis Park. I've emailed them again this year.

Marc was the person I liaised with last year.

Marc Romanucci

Regional Building Enviroment Manager

m: 07880037506| e: [email protected] | arcus.holdings

[Wanderer1]

I got a call back from Louise at East Dulwich Sainsbury's yesterday who said that (as it sounds like others already knew) Sainsbury's full own and manage St Francis Park. She said that she was contacting the contractor they use for the park/ general litter etc (ground-control.co.uk). Maybe they have changed contractro from ARCUS FM since last year. The park/ sainsbury's land seems to have pretty light touch maintenance arrangements (every 6 weeks in winter and every 4 weeks in summer). She's supposed to be coming back to me in a few weeks with an update/ response to other questions that I put to her on what (if any) longer term improvements Sainsbury's would consider.

[Guest]

I just received this email from ARCUS FM

I was in contact yesterday with Ground Control as they have attended this week but not completed all tasks satisfactorily. The Account Manager is reviewing and arranging for re-attendance to bring the area up to the required standard.

Kind regards

Catherine Kanagarajah

Regional Building Environment Manager

m: 07584 582027 | e: [email protected] | arcus.holdings

[BrandNewGuy]

The DHFC / Meadow planning application for a new stadium and housing is now online on Southwark's planning site, but it hasn't been validated yet, so there are no dates with regard to responses, decision deadlines etc:

https://planning.southwark.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?keyVal=_STHWR_DCAPR_9583549&activeTab=summary

[Abe_froeman]

the seemingly extensive pre-application meetings with the council make me suspect that this application is a done deal.

And building 224 new homes without a single parking space between them is going to make residential car parking in the surrounding streets an absolute nightmare!

[mikeb]

@ Abe - do you have a link to these pre-application meetings?

[Abe_froeman]

Hi Mike, unfortunately not, but there is reference to it in the documents, eg in the car parking plan -

"As part of the consultation process that has been undertaken, a Southwark Borough Council Design Review

Panel (DRP) was held on 13th May 2019. This resulted in some design recommendations which were

subsequently given further consideration. "

[andrewc]

The new plan is build over the old pitch and use the metropolitan land.

Not much changes eh??

http://www.championhillproposals.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Champion-Hill_April-Boards.pdf