CPZ: Residents of Derwent Grove, Elsie Road, Grove Vale and Melbourne Grove (North Section)

[ED_moots]

UPDATE. The letter has been updated as Galileo said. I will reattach in due course.

If those residents on these streets could still do the survey, that would be great.

I have prepared this very short (1 question plus some info to check varacity of respondents) so we can gather better data. PLEASE ONLY RESPOND IF YOU LIVE ON THE ROADS IN THE SUBJECT LINE.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/VY9GWQ6

Ps. I realise not everyone reads EDF but I can't think of a better way to circulate without printing and posting flyers (which pro CPZ groups have done) Is there an EDF twitter account?

[Galileo]

Hi Ed Moots

The response got amended before being filed to remove any statement of whether residents were in favour or not, given that that point would be answered by the consultation itself, and focussed only on design points should the CPZ go forward. I?ll check if the final version got circulated to the membership.

[ED_moots]

Thanks Galileo, I'll look out for the final version and will replace the draft attached to the OP. I still think some up to date data from residents would be useful to the VRA. Would you mind forwarding the survey link to any VRA contact list you might have?

[Galileo]

Hi ED_Moots

Yes happy to discuss that with the committee and just need to amend as either we have the email addresses or need to make clear the collection of email addresses isn?t going to the VRA due to data-protection issues. Perhaps we could discuss practicalities via the VRA email address? We can also discuss data generally and next steps when the consultation returns as we could assist with identifying and meeting other residents with similar views which might assist?

[MarkT]

Will the CPZ bring happiness to Derwent Grove?

They are voting yes but they say:

"the road suffers from a high number of cars belonging to residents, leading to a concern of whether, even with a CPZ, there will be sufficient parking spaces for the residents."

But a week ago, Derwent residents published photos to show a near empty street when the commuters had gone home:

https://twitter.com/edstnparking

https://www.southwarkgreenparty.org.uk/east_dulwich_parking_zone

Car ownership right across the CPZ area is 0.71 cars per household. The CPZ will remove parking spacse with extra double yellow lines. The Derwent concerns might be shared in many streets in the zone.

The proposed East Dulwich CPZ is 1.5 km from The plough to the station. Some residents will drive that distance to park in Derwent Grove. They will have no visible permits.

[ed_pete]

And about 50% of Elsie will have double yellows either side of the dropped kerbs where houses have off-street parking.

[Rockets]

Can I ask why the group representing these roads gives no indication on the preferred times of operation for the CPZ they so desire? Surely that should be a key element of the feedback to the council? If you were both convinced that commuters were the sole source of the problem and that you are keen to protect the local independent traders then maybe suggesting the hours of operation to be, say, between 9am and 10am would deal with the issue on your streets whilst trying to protect the local businesses? Or is the preference that parking spaces are reserved for the sole use of residents throughout the whole day?

Ed_Pete I fear the residents voting for this will find that the yellow line impact will be huge. I did my own very unscientific research recently on many of the roads near the station quite late at night after returning from a football match in town and along Melbourne Grove I counted 6 free spaces not filled with cars which suggests residents were filling the remainder. Take away the spaces lost to the drop curbs and there would be a net loss of parking spaces.

I do hope people aren?t convincing themselves to be the turkeys who voted for Christmas on the sole motivation that they will be able to park outside their house.

The impact of the CPZ is far greater than a few roads near the station and those residents who live there and I think this is reflected in the 8,000 signatures the traders managed to get to oppose the CPZ in any form.

[ED_moots]

Please can we leave the interrogation for the other threads. I am just trying to get some data from these specific roads so they can be represented by their residents association.

I'm sure there are many reasons why people may or may not want a CPZ. Everyone should be able to say what they want.

This like ED's brexit.

[MarkT]

ED_moots.

No I don't think you can ask us not to interrogate you on the specific issues you raise.

Only 98 people demanded this CPZ in advance, no doubt all members of your association and not even a majority of that.

Leading up to the deadline, photos were posted on twitter and on the Green Party website of apparently empty streets "when the commuters go home" claiming to demonstrate the overwhelming problem of commuter parking within your streets.

The Deputy Leader of the Council made public statements that the primary problem to be solved across the CPZ is commuter parking. This was the focus of the press coverage.

Everybody knew that the CPZ would take no account of need to travel; would have a damaging affect on local community facilities, local small tradespeople and shops and, with the draconian use of double yellow lines, would outlaw any neighbourly access to the kerbside in front of dropped kerbs.

Everybody knew that the CPZ would open up the streets to rat-running.

Everybody knew that "Healthy Streets" was a ruse to get the green vote. Everybody knew that gardens would be paved over and hedges ripped out. Everybody knew that you do not need a CPZ to get bicycle parking.

Everybody knew that there would be a net loss of parking space. Everbody knew that resident owned cars accounted for almost all the current parking, except apparently residents in your few streets.

The day following the deadline you write to the council suddenly realising you would not have enough space for the residents of your streets and asking for special rules on dropped kerbs.

Your lack of concern not only for visitors to the Medical Centre, but for anyone other than your residents is apparent from your demand that all Pay spaces are also available for residents, thereby allowing your members to block every space.

[ED_moots]

Just to clarify, I didn't have a hand in the original draft from Vale Residents Association. I do live on one of the VRA streets so I am just trying to get some real data from those streets so that the VRA can represent us as accurately as possible.

The redrafted letter takes a neutral stance on CPZ but I still think the data would be a valuable steer for the VRA if responded to by the residents in adequate number.

[Rockets]

ED_moots - you are right this is very much like Brexit:

- "locals" worried about parking immigration and "outsiders" taking their parking spaces

- a campaign group (the council) pushing inaccurate and misleading information to help fool the electorate into voting for it

- an electorate who could end up voting for something that they live to regret and can't undo which ultimately benefits no-one other than the people who dreamt up the idea.....

sorry I couldn't resist ;-)

[Ruskin]

Just to add my tuppenceworth about CPZs.

I'm not in the ED catchment but do suffer from Lambeth's CPZ that was imposed some years ago. My permit has climbed from the original ?85 to the now ?184 (5 year-old petrol hatchback).

On the day I paid this year's permit I discovered that station commuters are now parking in our road all day despite the consultation being accepted only if there was a 12.00-2.00pm pay time. But what they do now is leave the car in our road early morning, pay for parking at mid-day via the app then return late that day. They're not allowed to park directly outside the house in the designated residents' bay but do so anyway after 2.00pm so that if I make a quick trip to Sainsbury's mid-afternoon, the road is still chockablock and often someone in my spot outside the house.

So, ?184 for my permit to park outside my house and I'm STILL not able to park outside the house.

[intexasatthe moment]

MarkT not to trivialise your post in any way but I can't resist

everybody knows that the boat is leaking ,everybody knows that the captain lied

[first mate]

Thank you for that post which describes the likely reality of CPZ. Have you noticed an increase in cycling by the way?

[Ruskin]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thank you for that post which describes the likely

> reality of CPZ. Have you noticed an increase in

> cycling by the way?

Not sure if you're referring to my post of this morning, but if so - no, I never see anyone unloading a bike and pedaling away. They're always of foot and I suspect (without absolute proof) that they're walking across the park to Denmark Hill station.

[ED_moots]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ED_moots - you are right this is very much like

> Brexit:

>

> - "locals" worried about parking immigration and

> "outsiders" taking their parking spaces

> - a campaign group (the council) pushing

> inaccurate and misleading information to help fool

> the electorate into voting for it

> - an electorate who could end up voting for

> something that they live to regret and can't undo

> which ultimately benefits no-one other than the

> people who dreamt up the idea.....

>

> sorry I couldn't resist ;-)

No problem Rockets. That is exactly what I meant.