Secondary School Allocations 2019

[Katiesa]

Thanks everyone. Do you know what the furthest distance was this year for North Dulwich Charter?

[Oscar38]

How has seen the SouthLondon Press report... online!

"Southwark?s primary schools overcapacity by eight pupils and secondary schools overcapacity by 615 pupils, which means even more are learning in crowded classrooms".

[kristymac1]

sarvester Wrote:

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> Thank for that info, do you think that distance

> was on offer day or after that Bellendenbear?

It's very likely to be on offer day. There is another stat that comes out at the time the schools start in September I think

[tomskip]

954m for Charter ED? that excludes an awful lot of SE22 then (as predicted).

[BellendenBear]

I sent an email over Easter holidays and received reply on April 23rd saying that ?so far? the furthest distance was 954m. I assume that was the same as on offer day.

[Katiesa]

Anyone know Charter North or Harris Boys Peckham rye?

[Katiesa]

As well as North chsrter does anyone know Harris Boys Peckham rye as well?

[Sunglasses]

Charter North was 892m as at 23/04/2019 - according to a FOI request on Whatdotheyknow.com

Charter East Dulwich was 954m according to poster above.

It's crazy, if you draw the catchments of Charter ND and Charter ED on a map they massively overlap, you'd think they would have bigger catchments as a result - see attached pic

[goldilocks]

Whilst I appreciate the point you're making and I know it wasn't intended to be an accurate indication of where the intersect is, I don't actually think it overlaps as much as that shows. The address for Charter 1 (North) is the end of the driveway closer to the village - but its slightly more west than that - so think it could actually cut out more of the East Dulwich roads that are shown in the segment (eg Ashbourne, Chesterfield, Derwent etc) and therefore the overlapping bit really isn't so huge.

[Oscar38]

I wrote a post on the 3rd May. It is unfortunate that most of SE22 is in a 'black hole' for secondary schools, in that of the three schools local to the area; Charter East, Charter North and Harris ED. the area falls short of their respective "distance criteria". So far I have cornered a number of Southwark Councilor's about what they are doing to address this and they all claim, "nothing". I live in what is now Dulwich Hill ward, my local Councilor said blame the Tory party. A few days ago, I bumped into a few Councilors from the Village Ward, on the top of Lordship Lane and Barry Rd tented up on the corner promoting traffic and air pollution in the area. When I asked what are they you doing about our children not being able to go to a local school, one when a bit red, but did say he too has the same problem.

While the Council claims to have no power over the local schools, they do take a percentage of our Council Tax to help fund various 'out puts' in the local schools, therefore I would disagree that they "do not have any power".

A report came out this week online form South London Press highlighting over crowded secondary schools in Southwark.

Naturally, most people, like myself would love for my children to go to an outstanding school like Charter North and Harris ED, I can accept being told they are full, but don't tell me, I don't qualify and your my closest school. while some who lives in Kent gets a place because of one the various 'criteria's'.

We really need the community to stand up and make this an election issue. perhaps then someone in 'leadership' will take an interest.

[Monkey]

Hi Oscar and everyone

I'm getting mightily irritated with our councillors, who refuse to engage on the issue and answer my emails. Like you, Oscar, I think I'm not going to get into Harris Girls ED now that the school might be changing their nodal point. The Council is asleep at the wheel. I'm all for taking action, gathering a big group of parents and writing a group letter to our MP(s). Anybody interested, please PM.

[Jamma]

If it's any help I spoke to Helen Hayes about admissions because clearly it's daft in our area. We all know there was a nappy valley effect a few years back and the primary schools were bulging. Now that cohort has reached secondary but no-one seems to be getting a grip.

Helen Hayes was interested but not entirely helpful with my enquiry. There's not a lot she can do. And there's not a lot Southwark can do about some of the schools because they are academies. But certainly if she got the message that there are votes in sorting it out I think that would help. The more people that contact her about it the better.

[Monkey]

I contacted H. Hayes and H. Harman yesterday and encourage everyone to do the same. There is actually quite a bit Southwark can try and do. Like planning for example. But try and get hold of the minutes of the school places strategy meeting for 2018 and you feel like you?re being rude.

Also got news from Sydenham School yesterday that their radius hasn?t budged since offer day on 1st March. Go figure.

Also now hearing that Charter ED won?t expand as quickly as planned.

Southwark is sleep walking into a disaster.

[Renata Hamvas]

Primary schools-alot of Southwark primaries are under Southwark's control, therefore Southwark can control their admissions policies. Primary academies/free schools and voluntary aided schools set their own admissions policies.

Secondary Schools-NONE are under Southwark's control. They are all academies/free schools or Faith Schools. This is why we have a hotch potch of policies which varies from one school to another. We have some that prioritise faith, others that partially select for a particular ability and then use a lottery system, others use banding with distance, some use distance with or without a nodal point and others use a mixture of lottery and banding. Some have catchment areas.Yes, it is hugely confusing for parents and means that they have to go on each school's website and check their admissions policy. It also can change from one year to the next year too! Schools run by the same federation may have different admissions policies! To emphasise again, Southwark can comment on consultations on admissions policies, can raise concerns with the ombudsman but don't determine the admissions policies for any of the Borough's secondary schools.

The most recent document I can find in terms of long term pupil number planning is available on the Southwark website is from late 2017. It will come up if you search for Southwark Secondary School place planning, it covers the next few years.

Southwark does administer year 7 admissions to the secondaries in Southwark as part of the Londonwide admissions process. They will work with the Secondary Schools to help them secure funding for bulge classes where this is required due to an increase in applications. There is a higher number of 6-13 year olds in the south of the Borough than older and younger children, so the older ones from the peak birth rate years are already in secondary.

Even though the two Charter schools have an overlapping last place distance offer zone, it does impact on places at other schools outside the zone. Harris Girls' School is changing it's admissions policy. It currently offers 1/3 of it's places on distance and 2/3 on a lottery system. Its proposed new system from 2020 will offer all places after siblings etc on banding plus distance. Previously this school was favoured by parents living in Peckham and Camberwell more than East Dulwich and Nunhead, but this has been changing over the last couple of years. The new proposed admissions policy will give advantage to local girls living in Nunhead or East Dulwich over applicants from further away. Haberdashers' Askes is having a small expansion from 2020 (around 20). This will coincide with the Free School pupils entering secondary. As the primary and secondary school have a shared entry location point, the children who got in to the primary would have got the secondary anyway so these are extra places which may bring a few more east Nunhead residents into the last place distance area.

Monkey, you mention Sydenham Girls hasn't increased its offer radius. Southwark deals with families who move in to the area very quickly within its admission system. Sydenham Girls is in Lewisham and I have no information on this school. I would suspect that there was a significant number of late applicants, who lived close to the school rather than no movement in the waiting list. We are already in the increased birthrate years and every on time applicant was offered a secondary school place in Southwark this year. We have a good admissions department, I am sure they will look at the number of applicants this Autumn and work with the Secondary schools to provide spaces for the 2020 cohort.

Renata

[Oscar38]

I can see from the latest posts that at least one of them is awake (Renata Hamvas, good to hear from you), however still talking about the problem and not the solution. We all know what he problems are and why, and that Southwalk is 'half nelson" but what are you doing to give local children and fair change of a local secondary school place. You cllr's want us to Vote for you, then represent us, not the schools. There is also the issue of people that can afford it, doing short term lets in near to a few of the local school to secure a place. Solutions!!!

[Jamma]

Hi Renata,

Couple of things. "Every applicant being offered a secondary place in Southwark" doesn't really mean anything. For example my daughter (and many of her classmates) were offered an inappropriate school. If you can make sure every applicant is offered a secondary place at one of the six schools they applied for, that would be something to shout about.

Also what do you know of what Monkey says about Charter ED not expanding as quickly as anticipated. I too have heard there's problems with the hospital site that might inhibit expansion. If so that's going to be a problem, and perhaps a shock to parents hoping to get a place at Charter ED in a few years time. Would be good to know asap if there's gong to be any change to the admissions there.

Thanks.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Jamma,

All places are offered in accordance with the school's admissions criteria. Of those offered a place at a school they didn't apply for, typically most haven't applied for 6 schools but 2 or 3. If you live close to the Borough boundaries, you should be looking at schools outside Southwark too eg Forest Hill Boys, Sydenham Girls, Haberdashers Askes etc as you may fit the criteria of those schools on distance. What do you mean by an inappropriate school, eg were you offered a faith school when you wanted a secular school? Some schools are more popular than others, it is not possible to offer parents school places for their children simply because they want school X, they need to fulfill the criteria for school X. Charter ED initially had a PAN of 120 places. The PAN is currently 180 for this and next year. The second building phase is not due to be completed until Sept 2022; the final planned intake is 240.

You don't say if you have now been offered one of the schools that you originally applied for from a waiting list. It is still early days yet in terms of waiting lists, they move right up until September. If you want me to look at your application and suggest other waiting lists you could add your child's name to, please email me with where you live, where you have applied to and where you were offered.

Renata

[Renata Hamvas]

Southwark do check on people. If you are found to be renting a property close to a school and owning a property elsewhere further from the school and Southwark finds out, you will loose that place. If someone genuinely moves home, perhaps with a particular school in mind, that does not break any rules in terms of school admissions.

[Renata Hamvas]

If you don't get one of your preferred schools, Southwark looks which schools have spaces and then allocates spaces there by distance and looking what other type of schools a parent has applied for eg single sex or mixed, faith or secular. It is definitely good to apply for 6 schools and look where you may have got in the previous year for guidance (you need to be aware however that last place distances can change and do look over borough boundaries eg Deptford Green). With schools that operate a lottery system you can live next door to the school and you will have no advantage over the applicant who lives 10 miles away. It would make it fairer for all schools to operate a similar admission system, but as all the secondary schools in Southwark are out of LA control, we can't do anything about this.

[Renata Hamvas]

700 children in London were left without a secondary school place on Offer Day.

[Monkey]

Thank you, Renata. As always you are the one engaging with us.

I can't speak for Jamma but I'd consider a school inappropriate if it's far away and outside my immediate area, has really poor results or severe discipline problems. This definition will be different from the council's.

- How come Southwark ended up with only academies when Lewisham managed to hang onto their secondary schools?

-Also has Kingsdale been approached to expand their intake to the benefit of Southwark children as floated in the School Places Strategy Meeting dated October 2017?

- In the same meeting, the need for a secondary on the Old Kent Road was highlighted with a certain sense of urgency. I don't think this is being built. What effect is that going to have on other schools?

[motorbird83]

Discipline issues and poor results of a school are a reason to raise standards not for changing admission arrangements, surely.

How far are away are the schools that people are concerned about?

[Monkey]

Deptford Green I consider too far for an 11-year-old girl to travel to on her own every day. I?ve had a few incidents - let?s call them that - as a teenager, so very aware of safety issues.

Peckham Academy not too far but I know of the issues they are facing from hubby who was a teacher and a friend whose son attended. Not an option.

Completely agree with you on the need to raise standards. Unfortunately I don?t have the luxury of time and when I see schools where the brightest end up with negative progress 8 scores, this is just not somewhere where I want to send my daughter.

But yes we need to raise standards in all schools. I volunteer at a primary school so well aware of the issue.

[Abi1]

Hi Monkey, this is such an awful, stressful time, but I don?t think there is a parent in the land who wouldn?t want their child to go to an ?appropriate? school (Your words - they make me cringe) - with great grades, and on their doorstep. Sadly most of us can?t have it that way. Some years ago my then 4 year old was given a school 3 miles away when we were just 350 metres away from Fairlawn and siblings miles further away got in at our expense. It was an undersubscribed school, not one of my choices and really hard to get to. But such is life. My child thrived. Have confidence in your child, play the long list on the waiting lists like everyone else and spare your mental health. There are far worse things happen at sea. You have a school that is in borough and very near by. All our kids are special and deserve the best. But none of our kids deserve special treatment. It?s also noteworthy that you talk about Southwark schools for Southwark kids and yet are keen to get your child into Sydenham girls, a Lewisham school.

[Monkey]

Welcome to the Forum Abi1.

I don?t want Southwark schools for Southwark children, i?m merely asking the council about its plans to use Kingsdale to provide extra places locally. These are the words of the council, not mines. Kingsdale recruits far and wide using a Byzantine system, while Sydenham School recruits by distance.

I don?t want special treatment for my child, never have, never will. Indeed my favourite school is a local school which a lot of people don?t put on their