Secondary School Allocations 2019

[sarvester]

Hi Renata, did the council publish the % children getting their first choice, etc? It doesn't seem to be on theirs website. Also I think in previous years there's been some sort out drop-in help sessions, do you know if any area being held?

[James Barber]

Hi sarvester,

After chasing via Lib Dem councillors I've obtained this for 'on time' applications for secondary school places:

"

The data below relates to Southwark residents only and will be used to produce London-wide statistics that form the basis of the Pan London press statement, coordinated by London Councils, that will be released at 5pm today.

? All 3,048 of Southwark?s on-time secondary school, applicants have been offered a school place for September 2019.

? 2,742 (90.0%) applicants have received a place at a secondary school of their first to sixth preference

? 2,530 (83.0%) applicants have received a place at a secondary school of their first to third preference .

? 1,813 (59.5% ) families received a first preference school.

? 306 (10.0%) families without a preference have been offered an alternative school.

? 3,042 (99.8%) of Southwark applicants submitted an on time online application this year.

"

This doesn't compare will to London or England. Stats across councils and nationally will be available from April and summarised by Dept For Education in June - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/715650/2018_School_Application_Offers_Text.pdf

2018 secondary school offer day 82.1% offered first choice secondary school in England vs. 59.5% this year in Southwark, 93.8% across England offered fist 1-3 choices vs. 83.0&% in Southwark.

Was this what you were looking for?

[brezzo]

St Saviiour's & St Olave's last OFSTED was ten years ago and they were outstanding. I assume it is a good sign if OFSTED haven't been back.

The progress eight score this year was .56 "well above average" Data for Southwark here.

https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/schools-by-type?step=default&table=schools&region=210&la-name=southwark&geographic=la&for=secondary&basedon=Overall%20performance&show=All%20pupils&datasetfilter=provisional&searchtype=&la-name=southwark

Was it one of your choices?

[goldilocks]

Without wishing to downplay what is undoubtedly a stressful time for those not offered their first / second preference, I'm not sure that comparing the Southwark figures to national figures is a fair comparison.

In a lot of areas outside London boroughs parents simply don't have the breadth of choice of potential schools that we have here. I understand that 'choice' may not be the position some people are it, but by it I mean that there are a large number of schools within a reasonably small area given density of population.

A better comparison would really be to other London boroughs.

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi sarvester,

> After chasing via Lib Dem councillors I've

> obtained this for 'on time' applications for

> secondary school places:

>

> "

> The data below relates to Southwark residents only

> and will be used to produce London-wide statistics

> that form the basis of the Pan London press

> statement, coordinated by London Councils, that

> will be released at 5pm today.

> ? All 3,048 of Southwark?s on-time secondary

> school, applicants have been offered a school

> place for September 2019.

> ? 2,742 (90.0%) applicants have received a place

> at a secondary school of their first to sixth

> preference

> ? 2,530 (83.0%) applicants have received a place

> at a secondary school of their first to third

> preference .

> ? 1,813 (59.5% ) families received a first

> preference school.

> ? 306 (10.0%) families without a preference have

> been offered an alternative school.

> ? 3,042 (99.8%) of Southwark applicants submitted

> an on time online application this year.

> "

>

> This doesn't compare will to London or England.

> Stats across councils and nationally will be

> available from April and summarised by Dept For

> Education in June -

> https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen

> t/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/7156

> 50/2018_School_Application_Offers_Text.pdf

> 2018 secondary school offer day 82.1% offered

> first choice secondary school in England vs. 59.5%

> this year in Southwark, 93.8% across England

> offered fist 1-3 choices vs. 83.0&% in Southwark.

>

> Was this what you were looking for?

[Monkey]

This whole system really is a waste of time and money for everybody: students, parents and teachers too when you take into account open days, banding exams, and the huge amount of time administering the whole system.

After many school visits i?m told I have to go to, DD will still most likely be offered a place at our nearest school which, while good, doesn?t offer the foreign languages I want her to learn.

I?m going to sound very old, but ?in my time? all schools offered English (brought up in France), German and Spanish and you could easily get yourself into the ones which also offered Italian and Russian.

This really is a mess.

[redjam]

Monkey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This whole system really is a waste of time and

> money for everybody: students, parents and

> teachers too when you take into account open days,

> banding exams, and the huge amount of time

> administering the whole system.

>

Totally agree, Monkey, it's a colossal time investment for both parents and schools. And when you think of all the endless banding tests the kids have to do, not to mention music scholarship tests etc... Could never understand why there couldn't be a simple system whereby there was one single test and the results got shared between secondary schools (like they do in Wandsworth, for example) - or even more radically, dispense with extra banding tests altogether and go on primary school expected SATs results. Every pupil is graded to within an inch of their life throughout primary school so the data must be available.

[James Barber]

I suspect that lack of simplicity is just another way of selection - selection of parents who are likely to ensure their children do their homework, turn up on time, etc.

[Monkey]

But selecting the right kids/parents is not even always paying off in terms of progress 8 score... which goes back to my point: waste of time, energy and money.

[Toots]

Hi

we have been allocated Evelyn Grace in Brixton as its our closest school. Does anyone have any feedback on the school?

Thanks

[muccimagic]

colabottle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I was in the exact same position last year, having

> Sydenham down as our first choice, and getting

> none from our list, and offered Peckham Academy.

> I really understand how stressful this can be and

> upsetting for your daughter. I would also advise

> calling Harris Girls - they were so lovely and

> understanding when I contacted them in a panic

> last year.

>

> What I didn't know then, which I wish I had known

> about, is that there are specialist lawyers who

> can help you put together a case for appeal (even

> though they don't go to the appeal with you). If

> your child falls into an SEN category then I think

> there is also legal aid available. If you'd like

> any more information please feel free to message

> me.

>

> From my experience of last year it does eventually

> work out, but it's so hard waiting. Good luck and

> try to stay positive.

There is NO LEGAL AID available for those appealing on the grounds of special needs! If only. I have been to 2 tribunals via Sendist and it costs a fortune.It is supposed to be free but you absolutely need independent professional reports and expert witnesses. Then..if you win, like I did, you are likely to face a further tribunal as the council appeal against the decision in your favour.

.

[Oscar38]

Does any know how we can change the allocation process for residents on the "Hill" and get the distance criteria changed, I am so gutted. we have three perfectly great schools about 1km from our home. and we have been given a school 3km away all because we live in a part of East Dulwich that is considered a black whole for secondary schools.

I contacted the schools, all of which are over subscribed with long waiting lists. We have to change this, I think the Local Authority should be negotiating with the schools to position their distance wider in areas not cover by any school and shorter in areas covered by at least one school.

Can we get a petition going,

[kristymac1]

Hi Oscar38, where do you mean by "the hill"?

[Curmudgeon]

Oscar38 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Does any know how we can change the allocation

> process for residents on the "Hill" and get the

> distance criteria changed, I am so gutted. we have

> three perfectly great schools about 1km from our

> home. and we have been given a school 3km away all

> because we live in a part of East Dulwich that is

> considered a black whole for secondary schools.

>

> I contacted the schools, all of which are over

> subscribed with long waiting lists. We have to

> change this, I think the Local Authority should be

> negotiating with the schools to position their

> distance wider in areas not cover by any school

> and shorter in areas covered by at least one

> school.

>

>

> Can we get a petition going,

How would you imagine that working?

The one thing about distance is that it?s objective, if distance is an admissions criteria it has to be fairly applied to all who would like a place

[Oscar38]

Apparently the Wards, in Southwalk have been rezoned, South of Crystal Palace Road in now call Dulwich Hill and East Dulwich, Goose Green.

[Oscar38]

Curmudgeon Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oscar38 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Does any know how we can change the allocation

> > process for residents on the "Hill" and get the

> > distance criteria changed, I am so gutted.

> >

> > Can we get a petition going,

>

> How would you imagine that working?

>

> The one thing about distance is that it?s

> objective, if distance is an admissions criteria

> it has to be fairly applied to all who would like

> a place

That's my point; in my opinion, it is not fairly applied and I would like a place. In my case, we have three secondary schools approximately 1 -1.5 km away from us. All three are outstanding schools with a distance criteria of 800-900 meters. On this bases we fall short. The Councils approach is to give our children the nearest school with available place, no matter the distance. In our case, Harris Peckham 3km's away, and place us on a waiting list for the three schools that we choose which are naturally local to us.

The Schools approach is to service, children in care, Special needs, medial, siblings of other students and children of staff, before they look at the list. Most of whom. may have had a choice of more than one Secondary school. One School told us "our child was not a priority".

Eveyone seems to be missing the fact South of Crystal Palace Road, part of Court Lane, etc is a "black whole" for secondary schools, we have no choices for secondary school local to us at all, unless someone wants to correct me on this point. The Coucnil are well aware of this!

I recently questioned this with Southwark, and they sent me a list of available Secondary Schools across London, with available places to choose from.

I would like to see the distance Critria changed, we should be allowed to be priortised in the schools closest to us and given a fair chance of applying.

Or the distance critria, should be wider in areas of no coverage and low in areas where, families would have a choice of more than one Secondary School. In our area we have four junior Schools and no secondary school call it approximately 300 students a year for Seoundary intake.

I am keen to meet any families that are or have been, affected by this.

[Monkey]

I?m with you, Oscar. I?ve been in touch with councillors but was told to send my daughter on a 1h30 round trip to a school which Ofsted says requires improvements. One of the solutions would be for Kingsdsle, which recruits heavily from outside Southwark, to have a band for Southwark residents in black holes. And also for schools to stop the sibling priority criteria. Or move everything to lottery. Frankly when I heard the head of Charter North saying he improves the life chances of his students - who are all recruited from a tiny radius in a very privileged part of town - it really grated with me.

[Oscar38]

Have you engaged with the local MP or South London Press, I contacted both my local MP and the Councilor in charge of Schools at Southwark not a word from them. I also contacted the leader of the Labour Party, I heard back from him, but his office say we need more families to come forward, in order to be heard.

So I am looking for genuine families with the same issue, passed or present, willing to stick their necks out for the sake of the Community.

[Monkey]

Not contacted MP yet. She?s never had anything useful to say to me.

Problem is that most of the schools in the area are academies so they do what the hell they want... and there appears to be enough school places at the moment.

But still i?ll be in touch the councillor in charge of education tonight and copy in the councillor in charge of Dulwich Hill.

[motorbird83]

*Oscar* I can't understand what you want to happen. The only way for your family to be prioritised would be for someone even closer to the school not getting in and being forced to go to a school 3km away. Given all the schools are full there is no other outcome unless you want everything to be done via lottery where everyone has an equal chance of admission irrespective of where their house is.

There is an argument for removing sibling priority at secondary level but no one could really think children in care and with special needs don't deserve priority selection for schools.

[tomskip]

This has been an issue in East Dulwich for years! It's a shame that the new Charter school (with virtually the same catchment as Charter 1) doesn't appear to have alleviated the problem and there are still black hole areas. I think the removal of sibling priority would help but as motorbird says, when all the schools are in charge of their own admissions and there is no overall Local Authority control, then an "I'm all right Jack" mentality prevails. Automatic sibling priority doesn't even apply equally to all children in the borough. It's a mess.

[nunheadmum]

Lottery isn't the solution. Kingsdale is a lottery and look where that gets us. Harris Girls is a lottery and now local girls in Nunhead aren't getting a place.

Basically unless all schools are good+ or there is a glut of places, some kids will end up in schools that aren't good or better. Horrible if it's your child that's caught. But the small consolation is that the chances are, a good child in a school that is struggling to improve (particularly one with the might of Harris behind it) will be picked up and given all the help they can, to show what the school can do.

And waitlists do move a lot up until the start of term and beyond.

I hope you get a solution you feel happier with.

[Monkey]

I wish it were true, NunheadMum, but if you look at progress 8 scores for some of the schools that people in ?black holes? are being sent to, you?ll see that they?re negative. This means these schools are taking high prior attainers and not progressing them.

On a positive note, Harris Girls should be going back to a simple distance criterion and we?ll hopefully be offered a place next year. Looking at their website every day...

[Honor Oakey]

No system is perfect but at least the lottery system stops people playing the system with short term renting etc. Agree there?s no reason for sibling policy at secondary school. It?s a horrible, emotional, unsettling time. But getting a school 3k away is not a lobbying issue - It?s about a 20min walk. So for the sake of your own equiblatrm, I?d personally try to play the long game via the waiting list.

[Monkey]

In its 2017 school places strstegy meeting minutes, Southwark Council said of Kingsdale: ?The Council welcomes the interest and will continue to explore whether an expansion of benefit to Southwark pupils could be secured through alternative admissions arrangements.? Not seen an update since.

I don?t think this would be an unreasonable ask given how many out-of-borough kids Kingsdale takes.

[Honor Oakey]

Not sure what the stats are, but I don?t really think of school places as a boarder issue. Take Sydenham girls with its 800metre catchment area. Likewise we are Lewisham but my kids went to a Southwark school only 200 metres away. Kingsdale straddles loads of boarders. The whole system is tough but it?s not straightforward.