Council parks to charge ?2ph parking fee from 1 April

[tiddles]

Redpost I must take issue with your suggestions regarding getting a blue badge. A friend with MS (which is a known debilitating illness) has had their blue badge removed. They are having increasing difficulty walking.

I think you are unaware of the true challenges faced by disabled people in these times of austerity.

[richard tudor]

Perhaps people should reflect that the poster is 73 years of age, able to walk on level flat ground with difficulty.

This is applicable to many people.

Completing an mini assault course prior to getting to the park seems missed by some of the forums posters.

I also suspect that energy levels are not what they once were.

It would be interesting to see what their comments would be as they age. Now most do not have a clue.

Before answering with get a bus or walk consider what you might be like at that age or lower and also having pay an additional weekly outgoing to walk in your local park on a pension will in some cases will not be possible.

Cars are not a luxury for many people but a lifeline to the world.If transport is so good in and around ED why are there so many large and expensive cars parked in most of the roads Why is Sainsbury's car park alway packed if transport is so good and everything can be done using public transport?

Also no one has mentioned the huge prams that have to be used taking up a vast amount space on a bus.

[Zig-Zag]

It's a shame so many posters here seem so unsympathetic to older people who may not be disabled enough for BBs but can not walk a long way especially on muggers-paradise streets. Wait until you age....and you may well think very differently

[Rosetta]

tiddles Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Redpost I must take issue with your suggestions

> regarding getting a blue badge. A friend with MS

> (which is a known debilitating illness) has had

> their blue badge removed. They are having

> increasing difficulty walking.

>

> I think you are unaware of the true challenges

> faced by disabled people in these times of

> austerity.

Thus is terrible. Has your friend contacted their local MP?

[Blah Blah]

And many more elderly/ or mobility challenged people do not have the means to own a car. Free parking is not a right. I totally understand there are issues around genuinely disabled people failing to get BB's, and that seems to be the real issue here. I think more people would have sympathy with something being done to address that, than keeping parking free for everyone.

[first mate]

But it?s not suggested there should be free parking for everyone, and the selfishness of those who drive to the park without genuinely needing to should mot be used to penalise those with genuine need. As you now seem to acknowledge, many with genuine need are being refused BBs by the Council, who are responsible for that decision; the same Council that will further penalise them by charging them to park. There is a genuine issue here that should be properly addressed.

The option of free parking on roads nearby is almost certainly short-lived as CPZ creep intensifies.

[richard tudor]

It would make a great deal more sense if parking charges are to be introduced, if they have to be, to impose them on weekends.

During the week many of the people using the park are elderly walking their dogs and meeting up with similar people, a sort of mobile social club which saves Southwark money. There are not many other users during the week unless the schools are on holiday when it turns into a circus.

Which I do not have a problem with. I would never consider going to Dulwich Park on a sunny weekend at my age.

How many so called Southwark experts have stayed in the park for a full day for a full week and to see what goes on?

It does seem that many of the decisions are made by, in my view, by children who have no concept of real life outside the classroom for another age group.

For a good few years now Southwark has been reorganising and making redundant people who had real life experience and how Southwark really works i.e through the old system of Housing Offices and local Housing Officers. All now gone.

Large offices only now Tooley Street and Queens Road, North and South Southwark.

Now it appears that spreadsheet decisions are the norm plus consultations.

From experience very few people using the park car park are commuters during the week. Did anyone ask the parks office for their take on the matter?

Again this idea will impact on many who cannot afford to pay. If such decisions regarding parking are made it should consider those who cannot afford the charges.

It appears that many on here support charges who do not have a problem paying, have no problems with mobility or public transport. Wait till they find their street jammed with cars.

[exdulwicher]

richard tudor Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> For a good few years now Southwark has been

> reorganising and making redundant people who had

> real life experience and how Southwark really

> works i.e through the old system of Housing

> Offices and local Housing Officers. All now gone.

>

> Large offices only now Tooley Street and Queens

> Road, North and South Southwark.

>

That's cuts to council budgets for you - all the "local" staff with local knowledge made redundant, everything run from centralised offices to save money, day-to-day "experience" of those staff lost in favour of consultations and modelling. To be fair that's not really Southwark's fault, they (and every other council) have had those cuts imposed on them by Tory Government.

> It appears that many on here support charges who

> do not have a problem paying, have no problems

> with mobility or public transport. Wait till they

> find their street jammed with cars.

As I mentioned a page or so ago, I suspect that there's going to be some very undesirable knock-on effects of this - namely that residents of Court Lane, Eynella, maybe Eastlands Crescent and possibly Gallery Road are suddenly going to find that there's an awful lot of cars all trying to park as close as possible to the gates. One other possibility might be that people drive into the park, unload kids/bikes/scooters/prams/dogs and then turn round and drive straight out again (to park somewhere else or to go home and then return later to pick up again) leading to MORE traffic.

I assume that if we've all thought of that then Southwark Council must have thought of it too but it'll be interesting to see how it all pans out and what the response is...

[wulfhound]

It does seem that many of the decisions are made by, in my view, by children who have no concept of real life outside the classroom for another age group.

How very patronising. Most Cllrs and Officers are in their 30s, 40s and 50s; many likely to have lived experience of both young children and ageing parents. I'd put it to you that those in the busy middle of life are best placed to try and walk the difficult tightrope of balancing the needs of one generation against another.

Large offices only now Tooley Street and Queens Road, North and South Southwark.

True. But on typical Council Officer salaries (barring those at the very top), how many do you think can afford to live there? I'd suspect most have to travel in from the southern fringes of the borough or even further afield.

[peckhamside]

Well said

[chars]

Well said Richard tudor🙏

[Huggers]

I've dug up this thread to say that I've noticed on my weekday morning walks between 9.30-11am the now pay to park car park in Peckham Rye is now completely empty of cars and is often used for exercise classes instead.

[KidKruger]

So a really useful resource has a deterrent (paying) and its now being under-used.

[spider69]

The Dulwich Park Car Park is the same. One day I counted only 11 cars and less on other days.

When I asked the attendants they said this is now the norm. All the old regulars no longer come and the older generation with dogs no longer come because of the cost. So a very useful social club in these times has stopped..

When I complained all I got in response was a cut and paste standard reply saying we are trying to reduce the use of cars and people need to walk or use public transport.

I also mentioned that not all people have a modern phone with apps if they needed to pay. Their answer walk to the shop in lordship lane and buy a ticket.

[rollflick]

Peckham Rye car park largely empty because everyone parking on Strakers Road leading to it through the park, as it has no parking restrictions on it!

Besides the cost of introducing restrictions, there is more visual impact on the park with a line of cars parked along the road through it. Honestly how could council staff not foresee this happening?

[first mate]

Of course it was forseen. They want to increase parking pressure not relieve it.

[Abe_froeman]

And they are fixing it by making it more difficult to drive their by closing off the approach road at peckham rye and making it a bike lane

[smooch]

Oh FFS

[sandyman]

I thinks what's particularly harsh about Dulwich Park's parking regs is that they apply 24 hours a day. They are worse than parking restrictions in Oxford Circus.

What would be fairer would be if they applied from 8.30am to 6.30pm like most restrictions. Then people who couldn't afford to pay could visit the park outside those times - admittedly this wouldn't be much help in the winter but it could be a great help in the summer when people want to get some fresh air.

spider69 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Dulwich Park Car Park is the same. One day I

> counted only 11 cars and less on other days.

>

> When I asked the attendants they said this is now

> the norm. All the old regulars no longer come and

> the older generation with dogs no longer come

> because of the cost. So a very useful social club

> in these times has stopped..

>

> When I complained all I got in response was a cut

> and paste standard reply saying we are trying to

> reduce the use of cars and people need to walk or

> use public transport.

>

> I also mentioned that not all people have a modern

> phone with apps if they needed to pay. Their

> answer walk to the shop in lordship lane and buy a

> ticket.

[Huggers]

If I want to walk my dog in Dulwich Park I would have to drive. It's too far to walk, I cant take an old labrador on a bicycle and it would take two buses, the 37 to the village way junction and then something else I am not sure exists- and that's if my dog would be allowed on the bus. I think the knock on effect of a lot of the new restrictions is that people will stay more local - if you are staying more local you'll use local shops. Be very interested to hear feedback from Dulwich village shops - are they losing random drive through trade if it's such a hassle ? Will Nunhead shops lose trade if they are cut off from East Dulwich? won't people just pop out to East Dulwich instead?

[spider69]

I used to use the Nunhead shops but now have to take 2 buses to get there. As Rye lane does not have buses and to get one means a long walk I have given up going to shop in Nunhead.

How many like me.

[KidKruger]

Bang on comment.

Unfortunately, the people using the park are not the priority when these decisions regarding parking were made.

People using the park do not qualify for that attention, unless they can be milked of cash somehow - just a commodity-based view now it seems.

sandyman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I thinks what's particularly harsh about Dulwich

> Park's parking regs is that they apply 24 hours a

> day. They are worse than parking restrictions in

> Oxford Circus.

>

> What would be fairer would be if they applied from

> 8.30am to 6.30pm like most restrictions. Then

> people who couldn't afford to pay could visit the

> park outside those times - admittedly this

> wouldn't be much help in the winter but it could

> be a great help in the summer when people want to

> get some fresh air.

>

>

> spider69 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > The Dulwich Park Car Park is the same. One day

> I

> > counted only 11 cars and less on other days.

> >

> > When I asked the attendants they said this is

> now

> > the norm. All the old regulars no longer come

> and

> > the older generation with dogs no longer come

> > because of the cost. So a very useful social

> club

> > in these times has stopped..

> >

> > When I complained all I got in response was a

> cut

> > and paste standard reply saying we are trying

> to

> > reduce the use of cars and people need to walk

> or

> > use public transport.

> >

> > I also mentioned that not all people have a

> modern

> > phone with apps if they needed to pay. Their

> > answer walk to the shop in lordship lane and buy

> a

> > ticket.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

All the parking in Dulwich Park was taken yesterday.

[first mate]

Spider must be making it all up, in the same way that anyone questioning any of this stuff is persistently framed by some as a right wing loony, or simply a liar. Yesterday was Saturday. I suspect Spider is referring to weekday use. The time some dog walkers and others have historically used the park for a walk, parking up to do so. The reason they have used a car is because the park is too far to walk there and back. The journey is also too difficult by public transport.

After introduction of these recent measures numbers of people with limited mobility will now be priced out of the simple pleasure of regular park use. It?s discriminatory and incredibly short sighted of the council. Please don?t talk about Blue Badges and the like. Anyone with any real knowledge and experience of these knows they are hard to get and many people with degrees of mobility issues are denied them.

[spider69]

You are correct First Mate.

I would never consider going to Dulwich Park on a weekend. Below is a copy thread I wrote to Southwark in January 2020.

Below is an email that I sent to Southwark regarding the park charges, I have not had a response. This is the real damage these charges will cause not the reasons given by some above.

Perhaps people should consider what is written below.

As many of you are aware Council Tax will rise this year by4%

Try applying for a Blue Badge, it is not that easy as various articles in the Southwark News have thrown up.

Dear People,(Richard Livingstone, Eleanor Kelly and Peter John)

It has just been posted on the Dulwich Forum that the parking charge is going ahead as it would seem that the payment signs are already up to be used but are hidden. Although I have posted before my opposition I have heard not a word until the Forum put it up just now.

I have circulation problem with my feet whereby I need to walk a lot. My dog and I use Dulwich Park once a day and sometimes twice as it is flat and pleasant and does not put to much pressure on my metatarsal bones due to fat loss. It gives us both the exercise that Doctors recommend.

Prior to Champion Hill closing it took me 10/12 minutes by car to reach the park. Now I am looking at 25minutes sometimes more to get there. Another ill thought out scheme.

Now that this charge is being brought in I will have to consider if I can afford to go for 2/3 hours a day combined with other factors.

Before the normal comments are made if I have to take public transport, which involves 2 buses and walking the journey will take a min of 40 minutes or longer each way. That time depends if the bus/s turns up on time or at all. My house is situated in the middle of a hill away from public transport. So it is already difficult to reach a starting point.

Combine that with having a dog and the prospect does not really appeal after testing it. Getting a bus with a dog presents problems as mothers with prams that look like tanks take up most of the limited space parking space and space between the seats is very limited.

So looking to use my local park which I have done for almost 73 years a return journey will now take me around 90 minutes without the time spent in the park.

Factor into that being tired after walking, and it rains having a wet dog on a bus which will not please some the park is really getting out of reach.

6 days a week for me will cost ?24/36 a week extra for something that I already pay towards with my Council tax, which is over ?2000+ for this year. I cannot afford to pay to use my local park

Some families will also have to make this decision.

Locals in the Dulwich Park area can walk with no problem but others that are not and have have to travel with children, toddler bikes, scooters, toys and the family dog will have to consider if they can afford the park which is crazy. Getting on a bus is most of the time not an option.

It might appear to some that the park and it surrounds is turning into a middle class ghetto which might just be used by only close residents. This is wrong.

It is strange that Southwark keep pushing fitness but continue to make it difficult for many.

Again another decision whilst looking at in a meeting has just not been thought through before putting it into operation.

Southwark keep saying they need money and yet when reading comments on the Dulwich Forum Southwark can waste ?25,000.00 on a road improvement scheme at Bellenden Road and Avondale Rise which was not necessary beyond one resident suggesting it would look it would look pretty.

I would appreciate one of you letting me know why this is happening when there is overwhelming opposition to it and why you are cutting people off from using this and other parks.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards