Council parks to charge ?2ph parking fee from 1 April

[Zig-Zag]

Yet more discrimination against older people not up to speed with mobile technology or those with poor dexterity who can't use or don't want to use a phone to pay, eg. maybe have security concerns.

[Rosetta]

sally buying Wrote:

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> What happens if you dont have an up to date phone

> with all the bits or do not have a phone?

Perhaps you could ask this in the agonise Green Councillirs thread. Or ask Renata Hamvas.

[Froglander]

I see it took Southwark quite a while to bring this charge in, unless they meant April 1 this year.

[peckhamside]

The paper (see link in first post) prepared by head of parks and leisure is worth reading. Two key points-providing the car parks costs money and the people funding this should be the car park users (though it will also generate a healthy profit). Secondly charges will be competitive, significantly less than Brockwell Park.

[peckhamside]

Hi James, I support this charge, although I live near P.R. and doubtless people will park in my road instead!! My question is what do the Council plan to do about the service road to the car park. Lots of people park there, I suspect some have slept there in the past and then of course there are the Saturday evening family footballers (whom I think have been disgraceful harassed by local residents-probably on racial grounds). Will car parking charges apply to the access road or will it be no parking?

I am also concerned that this might lead to more parking on the road which will increase risk to cyclists.

[Asset]

I don't have too much of an issue with parking fee, discourage people from driving etc. However, the eyesore of the signposts is what bothers me. A black signpost every 2-3 metres along the grass verge on both sides is a little bit overkill, and presumably the meters are yet to be installed so that will be more furniture clogging the park.

There is a real problem with excessive street furniture and I wish it could be addressed.

[paulipedia]

I'd rather become a Park member and pay an annual fee than this. Did the council ever think to ask what the residents wanted. Having lived all over south London, one of the many great things about our area is you don't have to pay for parking. It's such a minor thing but has such a negative impact on your day. This is so shortsighted and infuriating

[exdulwicher]

paulipedia Wrote:

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> I'd rather become a Park member and pay an annual

> fee than this. Did the council ever think to ask

> what the residents wanted. Having lived all over

> south London, one of the many great things about

> our area is you don't have to pay for parking.

> It's such a minor thing but has such a negative

> impact on your day. This is so shortsighted and

> infuriating

Bit one thing that really needs to change is this ingrained attitude that your personal property can simply be left, free of charge, anywhere you please.

The amount of land given over to free storage of people's private possessions - their cars - is insane. Land prices in SE London - if that square footage was a garage it could be rented out for thousands of pounds a year.

Free parking leads to vastly increased driving which in turn leads to congestion, pollution and a feeling that the roads are less safe (due to the traffic volumes) which leads to more driving.

Council budgets have been slashed to the bone, they have to recover that cash somehow! Blame the Government for austerity, not the council.

[tallulah71]

To avoid paying ?20 per week just to visit PR, people will park all along the residential roads circling the park. Colyton road is already a nightmare at school-run times. Then they will introduce CPZ / yellow lines.

[Sally Eva]

The school on Colyton Road is a secondary school. Secondary school children get free travel passes.

[paulipedia]

Bit one thing that really needs to change is this ingrained attitude that your personal property can simply be left, free of charge, anywhere you please.

I'm pretty sure I pay for that privilege

[exdulwicher]

paulipedia Wrote:

>

> I'm pretty sure I pay for that privilege

Council tax? Or are we going down the Road Tax rabbithole?

Local roads are paid for out of council tax - the council own them and have the responsibility of maintaining them. So everyone who pays council tax, pays for the roads (and pavements) regardless of if they have a car or not (or indeed what type of car it is like a zero-tax electric vehicle or a massive high-tax 4x4).

There are a few extras around roads like utilities (if a utility company dig up a road, they have the responsibility and cost of putting it right again afterwards).

The council are maintaining a huge area of tarmac within a park for no other reason than for you to leave your personal property on it with the associated costs of pollution, congestion and the fact that that area can't be grass or trees or play areas. It's not unreasonable that they might want some compensation for that. Literally no-one else benefits from your car being there. So paying for it seems perfectly reasonable, no?

[paulipedia]

No VED is paid to park your car or drive on public roads

[exdulwicher]

paulipedia Wrote:

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> No VED is paid to park your car or drive on public

> roads

No it's not.

VED is simply a vehicle tax, paid to overall Government coffers - it doesn't give you a right to drive. That comes from having the relevant licence and insurance.

It's also a voluntary tax - you can choose to pay it or not (by choosing to own a car or not). And if you do choose to own a car, you can choose how much to pay. Electric vehicles (and some other classes of vehicle like agricultural, emergency services) zero. But they can still drive on the roads and park wherever.

So VED (colloquially known as road tax) means nothing to a "right" to drive or park anywhere. Paying more tax (eg on a big 4x4) doesn't give you any more right on the roads (driving or parking) than a zero tax electric vehicle. There are loads of vehicles on the roads that pay no VED. Bicycles, horses, emergency services vehicles, agricultural vehicles, electric (and most hybrid) vehicles... They all have a right to be there but it seems fair to ask that if they want to store that vehicle for a period of time on public land, that they pay for the privelege.

You don't get any sort of discount if you walk or get the bus to the park. Why should you get what amounts to a free allocation of public space if you drive there?

Over the next 10 years or so, parking and also VED is really going to come under the microscope. VED because it's simply not sustainable to keep driving (pun intended) people towards low/zero tax EVs and hybrids - the losses to Government in terms of VED and fuel duty are not sustainable. Parking, because councils simply can't afford to be providing that amount of space for temporary storage of private property especially when you consider (against the climate emergency sceario) the externalities of pollution and congestion caused.

[paulipedia]

It's paid to keep an eligible car on the road. If I didn't pay it my car would be clamped, impounded and eventually crushed.

I'm not saying it's a tex to drive it.

And I'm not opposed to paying, it's how you pay. There are people who have to drive for various reasons who visit the parks every day that can't afford ?700 pa

[Sally Eva]

People who have to drive and cannot catch a bus can get a blue badge and they will not have to pay. A blue badge is automatically given to those with Personal Independence Payment mobility allowance and also to those who can show a medical need.

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parking/disabled-parking/blue-badge

[spider69]

Below is an email that I sent to Southwark regarding the park charges, I have not had a response. This is the real damage these charges will cause not the reasons given by some above.

Perhaps people should consider what is written below.

As many of you are aware Council Tax will rise this year by4%

Try applying for a Blue Badge, it is not that easy as various articles in the Southwark News have thrown up.

Dear People,(Richard Livingstone, Eleanor Kelly and Peter John)

It has just been posted on the Dulwich Forum that the parking charge is going ahead as it would seem that the payment signs are already up to be used but are hidden. Although I have posted before my opposition I have heard not a word until the Forum put it up just now.

I have circulation problem with my feet whereby I need to walk a lot. My dog and I use Dulwich Park once a day and sometimes twice as it is flat and pleasant and does not put to much pressure on my metatarsal bones due to fat loss. It gives us both the exercise that Doctors recommend.

Prior to Champion Hill closing it took me 10/12 minutes by car to reach the park. Now I am looking at 25minutes sometimes more to get there. Another ill thought out scheme.

Now that this charge is being brought in I will have to consider if I can afford to go for 2/3 hours a day combined with other factors.

Before the normal comments are made if I have to take public transport, which involves 2 buses and walking the journey will take a min of 40 minutes or longer each way. That time depends if the bus/s turns up on time or at all. My house is situated in the middle of a hill away from public transport. So it is already difficult to reach a starting point.

Combine that with having a dog and the prospect does not really appeal after testing it. Getting a bus with a dog presents problems as mothers with prams that look like tanks take up most of the limited space parking space and space between the seats is very limited.

So looking to use my local park which I have done for almost 73 years a return journey will now take me around 90 minutes without the time spent in the park.

Factor into that being tired after walking, and it rains having a wet dog on a bus which will not please some the park is really getting out of reach.

6 days a week for me will cost ?24/36 a week extra for something that I already pay towards with my Council tax, which is over ?2000+ for this year. I cannot afford to pay to use my local park

Some families will also have to make this decision.

Locals in the Dulwich Park area can walk with no problem but others that are not and have have to travel with children, toddler bikes, scooters, toys and the family dog will have to consider if they can afford the park which is crazy. Getting on a bus is most of the time not an option.

It might appear to some that the park and it surrounds is turning into a middle class ghetto which might just be used by only close residents. This is wrong.

It is strange that Southwark keep pushing fitness but continue to make it difficult for many.

Again another decision whilst looking at in a meeting has just not been thought through before putting it into operation.

Southwark keep saying they need money and yet when reading comments on the Dulwich Forum Southwark can waste ?25,000.00 on a road improvement scheme at Bellenden Road and Avondale Rise which was not necessary beyond one resident suggesting it would look it would look pretty.

I would appreciate one of you letting me know why this is happening when there is overwhelming opposition to it and why you are cutting people off from using this and other parks.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards

[first mate]

Sally, you make it sound so simple. However, getting PIP is incredibly difficult, even arduous, with many disabled people getting turned down. The assessment process is designed to fail people. Getting a Blue Badge is also very difficult. So no, disabled or chronically ill people who have to drive and cannot get a bus will not just be able to get a blue badge. This will also have a huge knock on effect to those caring for them.

Sally Eva Wrote:

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> People who have to drive and cannot catch a bus

> can get a blue badge and they will not have to

> pay. A blue badge is automatically given to those

> with Personal Independence Payment mobility

> allowance and also to those who can show a medical

> need.

>

> https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parking/disabled-park

> ing/blue-badge

[wulfhound]

Before the normal comments are made if I have to take public transport, which involves 2 buses and walking the journey will take a min of 40 minutes or longer each way. That time depends if the bus/s turns up on time or at all. My house is situated in the middle of a hill away from public transport. So it is already difficult to reach a starting point.

Two buses..? If you're the far side of DHFC from the park, you can't be far from either-or the P4 or the 176, both of which will get you directly there.

If you have a smartphone, the bus apps are a godsend nowadays. No more guessing if it will turn up - once you know how long your walk takes, you can time it to leave the house 30 seconds before the bus arrives.

[tiddles]

Yes agree with first mate - I have a friend who has had a blue bade for 15 years (they have MS which is getting worse)

they were recently 'assessed' and because they can walk a short distance without assistance (we are talking a few metres here) it was removed.

I am encouraging an appeal but the whole process was so upsetting they are reluctant to do anything at the moment.

[Sally Eva]

They have a month from the date of the decision to appeal. Even if they just write "this is wrong, I want to appeal" this safeguards their appeal rights. If they are past the month they have "specific grounds" rights to appeal for another year. They should go into the CAB and get help.

The DWP assessors are constantly overturned at Tribunal -- most people who appeal, win.

they can retain their blue badge if they have severe mobility problems whether they get PIP or not.

[first mate]

Sally, you seemed to infer it was all straightforward and if you cannot take a bus and need to use a car you can get a blue badge. It is not simple, people often fail tests for PIP or blue badge, because the system is loaded, unfairly, to make them fail. The fact many win at appeal is a strong indication of that. The utopia you seem to paint where people have a clear, easy choice with options, according to need, is simply not the reality.

[vanihe]

All countries have parking fees. There are a lot of cars. But it seems to me that near parks and social facilities parking is needed free

[tallulah71]

Sally Eva Wrote:

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> The school on Colyton Road is a secondary school.

> Secondary school children get free travel passes.

what's free travel got to do with cars parked along Colyton Rd? Also, plenty of children get collected by their parents in cars.

[sally buying]

Council will start charging 24th February.

They certainly took all the objections and reasons not to in to consideration