Obama's War on the Catholic Church

[ManOfTheCloth]

President Obama is trying to enforce US catholic health agencies to provide funding for Contraception. Something which against the teaching of the Catholic Church but also something that Catholics, as a rule of thumb in the US and here in the UK do not take much notice of. Why is this? And if Catholics do not take note, then how can anyone else be expected to?

Telegraph

I?m posting this because I read an essay last night from a book ?Why Humanae Vitae Was Right: A Reader? (ISBN-10: 0898704332 ISBN-13: 978-0898704334) and although I would have before agreed with the teaching Humanae Vitae, I wouldn?t have been able to express my reasons very clearly. When I saw the Obama article today, I thought it was kind of significant.

Humanae Vitae was a document published in the 60s outlining Paul VI opposition to birth control and his reasons. Has this message ever been understood by mainstream Catholics, many of whom choose to ignore the directive and some of whom think it unimportant?

Perhaps it would be good to give a simple synopsis of the philosophy of this teaching and as I understand it, having read an essay, the reasons can be set out as follows:

Any form of contraception places a barrier between a man and his wife. This barrier, which can be inflicted by the man or the woman, attempts to block the ability to conceive. It violates the freedom of the individuals by taking into their own hands the right to decide whether life will be created or not. It removes this from God, the sole creator of life. True freedom is the self abandonment to God. It is therefore sinful. Sin is always damaging to oneself and often to others. It is damaging because a man and a woman exclude God from their sexual relationship, something that should be the most intimate part of their relationship. What couples fail to understand I think, is that excluding God from any part of the union they have with each other only inhibits them from becoming happier, more fulfilled people, more perfectly human. Basically, what I am saying is that including God within the whole of their relationship with each other enhances each and every part of that relationship, including the act of intercourse, so that intercourse truly becomes making love and not something pretending to act as it. They are excluding themselves from a better way of living, madness when you think about it.

What parent would ever give a child back? None I hope and the way we try to control life only inhibits life. I have three brothers and I am so glad of that fact, I would be happy had I had more siblings as there is no greater friend than a brother. Large families may have to do without some things but they have so much more.

I hope we can learn to trust the Church?s teaching once more because, even if we do not at first recognise the teaching for what it is truly meant to represent, I believe it is full of wisdom. It?s a shame sometimes we have to look so hard to find these pearls but then if they aren?t given to us in the mainstream media and they aren?t given to us at the pulpit or if we aren?t receiving them from the pulpit because we aren?t there or don?t listen, can we be surprised?

[Huguenot]

Oh dear

[El Pibe]

I'm not sure what you're asking/saying

There seem to be two issues here:

1.Is contraception right or wrong?

2. Is Obama's attempt to have uniform provision of health care, regardless of the proclivities of the provider fair?

And perhaps implicitly, 3.is Obama waging a war on the Catholic Church?

1. Fill yer boots if that's how you feel as long as it the church doesn't start lobbying the state to act accordingly.

2. I'm not sure about this one, but if health care provision is standardised i can see why there shouldn't be exceptions, perhaps there can be a compromise where non catholic workers actually do the doling out of the condoms/pill etc.

3. I see no evidence of one.

I thought those seminaries famously instilled a discipline of thought, or iis that just the jesuitical ones ;-)

[Brendan]

Catholics don?t really practice any of the stuff the church says anyway. Particularly the no birth control thing. We just don?t mention it when the priest is around. Just like you don?t tell your granny when you?ve been smoking crack. It?s a bit like all that believing in god business.

[zeban]

Help!

[Otta]

Brendan Wrote:

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> Catholics don?t really practice any of the stuff

> the church says anyway. Particularly the no birth

> control thing. We just don?t mention it when the

> priest is around. Just like you don?t tell your

> granny when you?ve been smoking crack. It?s a bit

> like all that believing in god business.

Unfortunately, in a lot of poor countries, they do practise it, and it's a bloody disaster!

[LuLu Too]

So, just to be clear; Humanae Vitae advocates that the only true sexual union is essentially a threesome?

Cool!

[Jeremy]

Most British people consider the Catholic Church's stance on contraception to be utterly disgraceful.

Everybody has the right to plan their families and protect their health, if they so choose.

[????]

Where do we start?

Even on a simple level if we are going to listen, shouldn't we believe in God's teaching not the 'church'? - that's the whole problem with the catholic church...you're meant to listen to 'it' not 'god'; it's nothing to do with any god just it's own self-serving crap ....and too often that is revolting, abusive, law breaking, corrupt, immoral, ungodly disgrace.

Bring that up at your next confession not that you used a contraceptive.

[HAL9000]

The doctrine has a long history - more at: St. Thomas Aquinas on contraception

St. Thomas Aquinas

Referring to contraception, the Angelic Doctor declared: ?Hence, after the sin of homicide whereby a human life already in existence is destroyed, this type of sin appears to take next place, for by it the generation of human nature is impeded.?[1]

The ?Si Aliquis? Canon

Dr. William May writes that this canon, integrated into the law of the Church in the Decretum Gregorii IX (book 5, title 12, chapter 5) and part of the Church?s canon law from the mid-thirteenth century until the 1917 Code of Canon Law, clearly compared contraception to murder. It declared:

?If anyone (Si aliquis) for the sake of fulfilling sexual desire or with premeditated hatred does something to a man or a woman, or gives something to drink, so that he cannot generate or she cannot conceive or offspring be born, let him be held as a murderer.?[2]

The Roman Catechism (Catechism of the Council of Trent)

The Roman Catechism, which was published by decree of Pope St. Pius V, has been used as an authoritative guide to Church teaching since the end of the sixteenth century. The Roman Catechism states the following about contraception: ?Whoever in marriage artificially prevents conception, or procures an abortion, commits a most serious sin: the sin of premeditated murder.?[3]

Dr. William May notes that Pope Paul VI explicitly referred to this text in footnote number 16 appended to Humanae vitae, no. 14.

Fr. John McHugh, O.P., and Fr. Charles Callan, O.P.

?The perpetuation of the human race is endangered as soon as marriage is abused as to its natural end. Hence, after the crime of homicide which destroys human life already in existence, contraception seems to rank next in enormity, since it prevents human life from coming into existence.?[4]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, 3, 122.

[2] Text in Corpus iuris canonici, eds. A. L. Richter and A. Friedberg (Leipzig: Tauchnitz, 1881), 2, 794.

[3] The Roman Catechism, Part II, Chap. 7, No. 13, in the translation of Robert Bradley, S.J., and Eugene Kevane (Boston: St. Paul Editions, 1985), p. 332.

[4] Fr. John A. McHugh, O.P., and Fr. Charles J. Callan, O.P., Moral Theology: A Complete Course, Vol. II, #2620.

[HAL9000]

The Judaeo-Christian prohibition on contraception is based on the positive Biblical commandment to "be fruitful and multiply."

[Otta]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Where do we start?

>

> Even on a simple level if we are going to listen,

> shouldn't we believe in God's teaching not the

> 'church'? - that's the whole problem with the

> catholic church...you're meant to listen to 'it'

> not 'god'

They believe that when the pope sits on the papal throne, he is speaking on God's behalf, delivering his message so to speak.

[????]

Well yes, that's my point.... and his mere 'flock' can only talk to him through the priesthood. No wonder the Reformation happened.

Don't trust no-one but yerself I say - priests, doctors, teachers, etc :))

[Brendan]

I recently heard someone describe the church as having been the medieval equivalent of the EU. Which fits well with the medieval world view where the right to govern was granted by God. How you ruled was entirely up to you had divine licence to do as you pleased.

The church has been politically superseded in most of Europe but still remians as this sort of extra-governmental (is that a term?) organisation. It?s like a rogue NATO using an arsenal of fear and superstition to bind the unsophisticated to its cause so that it can continue to exist.

Although the use of a religion to propagate a sense of nationalist belonging amongst a population subservient to a disconnected ruling aristocracy and compliant to the requirements of an expansionist, baby-killing empire isn?t particularly big or clever either.

[Alan Medic]

I'm quite grateful that contraception was banned by the CC. I wouldn't be here otherwise given that by parents would have probably started using it before number 7 (me) came along!

[Saffron]

ManOfTheCloth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> What parent would ever give a child back?

Nevermind whatever else you may believe, there are plenty of pregnant women who don't want to be, and plenty of parents who abandon their unwanted infants and children. Only the narrowest, most ingnorant and selfish viewpoint would allow that all pregnancies and offspring are wanted by their progenitors. This is very sad, and you may not like it. But it is real. Recent WHO stats: Over half of all pregnancies are unplanned, and of those, over half are unwanted.

In a secular country, the view that all providers of healthcare must offer contraception is not an extreme point of view, nor even a new one. Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, no? Catholic providers of healthcare in the US should offer contraception. It's then down to individual Catholics to resist the tempation (if they care to do so).

The REAL QUESTION is would we even be having this discussion if there were a reliable contraceptive jab for men?

[woodrot]

The Catholic church is an Antideluval homophobic mysoginistic Nazi paedophile death cult that uses fear and baseless superstition to ensure a ready supply of victims to contribute to its coffers & condolidate its power base.Its centuries old obsure dogma inspired proto terrorism campiagn makes Al Quaida look like a bunch of do gooder neo hippy part timers.

[HAL9000]

All?hu Akbar - let's all convert to Islam, now! Hajj Talbiyah

[El Pibe]

a tad hyperbolic there snoodrot!

[woodrot]

he started it

[El Pibe]

touch? ;)

[gamerr]

.

[Saffron]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/in-birth-control-debate-whose-conscience-will-rule/2012/02/09/gIQAoetS1Q_story.html

From the article:

"Birth-control is widely used even by Catholics: 98 percent of American Catholic women have used contraception in their lifetimes. And according to a poll released this week, nearly 60 percent of American Catholics believe that employer health insurance should cover contraceptives ? in spite of their church?s theological opposition."

"Birth control is noncontroversially good for families and children. According to the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy, ?a child born as the result of an unintended pregnancy is at greater risk of premature birth, low birth weight and abuse or neglect, and babies who are born early or too small have a greater chance of dying in their first year of life.? Planned children are more likely to benefit from good prenatal care and to be breast-fed."

Obama is not having a war on the Catholic church. He is trying to ensure the health and well-being of women and children across the US.

[Saffron]

gamerr Wrote:

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> Didn't a study in America show that 98% of

> Catholic women use birth control?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-claim-that-98-percent-of-catholic-women-use-contraception-a-media-foul/2012/02/16/gIQAkPeqIR_blog.html

"Data shows that 98 percent of sexually experienced women of child-bearing age and who identify themselves as Catholic have used a method of contraception other than natural family planning at some point in their lives."

"The 98-percent figure first appeared in an April 2011 study written by Rachel K. Jones and Joerg Dreweke of the Guttmacher Institute, which is a non-profit organization that promotes reproductive health and had started as an arm of Planned Parenthood. The study is titled 'Countering Conventional Wisdom: New Evidence on Religion and Contraceptive Use.'"

See also discussion here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/family-planning-is-preventive-healthcare-for-women/2011/07/26/gIQA1UjVbI_blog.html

[ManOfTheCloth]

98% of Catholic women would be wrong then; they would be committing grave sin. Sorry but that is the long and short of it. Your sins will be forgiven though of course but why continue to damage ourselves and others in this way anymore? As Alan said, I wouldn't be here either if my parents had used contraception. I wasn't planned, at least not at the time I came along (I was born only 11 months after my brother) but I was wanted. I was wanted because my parents allowed God to decide when their children were born, that's true Freedom. They are one of the happiest couples I know and are fast approaching their 40th wedding anniversary.

This is an interesting article to add weight to my argument. Perhaps my best argument though is my total inability to imagine life without having known one of my brothers, I shudder to think how much love I would have missed out on and would continue to miss out on. The more the merrier I say, plus, growing up we always had an awesome 5 A-side football team!

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