What has happened to my ED!!

[Guest]

Mikewbate Wrote:

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> Ibo. I love you. I disagree with you - but you are

> true to your convictions and hold your corner in

> the face of much abuse - some of it from me.

>

> BUT. There was never a time when there were

> butchers round EVERY corner. People would have had

> terrible health problems and an awful diet

> ........ then again

There was certainly many more than the one over-priced butcher in LL

[SimonM]

>>There was certainly many more than the one over-priced butcher in LL<<

There were six in all: two on Northcross Road, 1 in the parade of shops opposite the Plough, 3 more down the hill in the "main" shopping area of Lordship Lane. Perhaps you should ask yourself why they all closed, one by one? For a long time the choice for buying meat was either one of the supermarkets, or to go further afield

to somewhere like Miles & Son on Kirkdale (excellent butchers - much missed when it closed) or that place in West Dulwich.

William Rose is not overpriced by any means - as I write this he is still selling top quality Aberdeen Angus Rump Steak at ?3.50 per pound - and heaven only knows how far along the road the Saturday queues would stretch if he slashed his prices - opr, indeed, accepted credit cards. The sort of butchers' shops you used to find on Lordship Lane sold a limited range of pretty dire quality produce, and were certainly strangers to words like "organic" or "free-range"

[SimonM]

>>>The charity/second hand shop opposite which sold prams and toys and all sorts has been replaced by a ghastly "Claphamite deli", not fitting to the area at all:D

[Joe likes dinner]

i don't like this notion of ''claphamisation'' that people keep harking on about.

If people mean 'developing' or attracting more people with full time jobs and what, despite cafe nero, are prosperous independent businesses, then fair enough.

Time to make a few destinctions, and some sweeping cynical generalisations. Apologies to any modern claphamites, if you are reading this, you should now be in East Dulwich and thus above all of that, you have seen the error of your ways and are now moving you life forwards, I salute you.

Clapham nowadays is:

Enhabited by 3 types of people -

30-something city folk with porsches, not much taste, loud obnoxious voices which jabber on about their prep school days and being cads. To them, they live in Claaaam, or Chelsea South. These folk wear pink cashmere jumpers over their shoulders no matter what the social event.

20-somethings with no imagination, style or substance with their first job in london probably having moved from a red-brickesque university town, now working in a recruitment consultancy, estate agency, or media sales. They mainly drink in samey-club-bar type places like HA!HA! and get slaughtered in the armpit of civilisation, otherwise known as Infernos! Simply ask the new graduate in your office and they will fill in the details, for those who know not of Infernos. These folk have think, wavy quiffed hair, crumpled shirts with buttons open and collars up. They wear brown boatie shoes with no socks.

Australians - aged 17-35, they live one-per-square-foot in order to pay the extortionate rental prices. They man the bars of said generic bars and clubs, can be seen on the common in shorts all year having ''a f*cking crazy, we're so cool with frizbee and hackey sack type time'' before they head to the nearest balcony / rooftop / carpark to barbeque the life out of some tesco metro sausages complaining they aren't made of beef. They wear boardie shorts and flip flops or we call 'em thongs mayte''!

The fourth type, otherwise known as the native working classes don't technically live in Clapham, but made-up areas such as 'Brixton West' 'South stockwell' and 'Streatham north, north, west and along a bit' this is because they aren't middle class and do things like trade in drugs and express themselves by the wrong type of violence. (Dunken toff violence is fine.) Therefore they don't count.

East dulwich is:

please insert your own thoughts on what ED really is and about.

I'll start -

Now full of pricey real estate, obvious

Home to only one public antipodean, who we hear is doing well from said housing boom and not understood to work in the hospitality industry. In comparison, not too bad.

[capt_birdseye]

Jockey Wrote:

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>

> Two good things to come from the last 8 years -

> Rise in house prices, decent pubs.

>

> I'm off to Forest Hill - and when FH becomes like

> Dulwich (as concentric ring expands like a bad

> smell), I will go to Sydenham.

So you don't like what's become of ED but you're more than happy to cream off the huge increase in equity that's a direct by-product of the changes. Why don't you skip FH and Sydenham and move to Penge and donate any left-over cash to a worthwhile cause?

[clare]

Call me shallow (cos I am in this respect) but I could never really be friends with any man who wore deck shoes.............

[Guest]

Wow!

I only came on to this forum to find a builder and it's actually quite entertaining in an ironic way. I'm postig a message becuase I'm piss bored and drunk! What's your excuse? And I didn't realise how many middle class idiots there are living in Julie's ED! Jesus! I'm outta here!!!

[Guest]

SimonM Wrote:

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> >>There was certainly many more than the one

> over-priced butcher in LL

> There were six in all: two on Northcross Road, 1

> in the parade of shops opposite the Plough, 3 more

> down the hill in the "main" shopping area of

> Lordship Lane. Perhaps you should ask yourself why

> they all closed, one by one? For a long time the

> choice for buying meat was either one of the

> supermarkets, or to go further afield

> to somewhere like Miles & Son on Kirkdale

> (excellent butchers - much missed when it closed)

> or that place in West Dulwich.

>

> William Rose is not overpriced by any means - as I

> write this he is still selling top quality

> Aberdeen Angus Rump Steak at ?3.50 per pound - and

> heaven only knows how far along the road the

> Saturday queues would stretch if he slashed his

> prices - opr, indeed, accepted credit cards. The

> sort of butchers' shops you used to find on

> Lordship Lane sold a limited range of pretty dire

> quality produce, and were certainly strangers to

> words like "organic" or "free-range"

Organic and free range are cons for people with too much money .The old butchers were fine , they just could not compete with the supermarkets . The new butcher is no better than the old ones , he just has idiots as customers.

[Guest]

SimonM Wrote:

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> >>>The charity/second hand shop opposite which

> sold prams and toys and all sorts has been

> replaced by a ghastly "Claphamite deli", not

> fitting to the area at all

> What you refer to as a "ghastly "Claphamite deli"

> is currently celebrating five years of business*

> and, contrary to it "not fitting in the area at

> all" - has very nicely complemented the

> Greek/Cypriot deli that has been over the road for

> years and years. I think the "East Dulwich Deli"

> is a quite splendid adornment to the local range

> of shops and salute its continued deserved

> success. Five years, incidentally, is around twice

> as long as the charity/second hand pram shop was

> in existence, so perhaps there's some room for

> leeway in deciding which business was "fitting to

> the area", and which was incongruous?

>

> * a free chocolate brownie to customers this week

> to commemorate the 5 years >:D<

The Greek Cypriot deli is Turkish.

[spadetownboy]

times a change and for someone who has been away for so long it can come as a shock,but as an ed resident for 17 years i have seen it change for the better.ed was never a no go area but certainly some of the pubs left a lot to be desired,the vale in its many incarnations as the manor and the hamlet was a rough old joint full of irish builders,i still vividly remember the night a bloke was stabbed no more than 4 feet from me in the lounge and for those that remember the owner was forced to flee to ireland in 98/99 following a mulit-million tax scam. as for the edt,it used to be in two halfs a lounge and bar with a dividing door in between,walk in to the wrong side on the wrong night and you would be taking your life in your hands. we have sainsburys and a new somerfield which while not to everyones taste or possible standard is a major improvement on what we had,and as for the various delis,coffe houses ,cafes etc and drinking establishments well where would we be without them.there are three large areas of green space to take advantage off, a reasonably low crime rate and judging from the contributions on this site a caring and responsible population.so all in all compared to what ed could be like i for one think we live in a pretty decent area.

[Guest]

...or maybe its Lebanese, I keep forgetting these days, it's not easy you know

[Guest]

Joe Likes his dinner - shaaaaaddap, none of what you said is a true representation of anything but some dirt town in Glasgow. Go eat your dinner but don't watch too much TV, it has the power to influence your thoughts as we have clearly seen by your small offering earlier.

Captain Bird eyes (terrible I know) - You got one thing right. I shall be "cashing in" very soon. However, the thought of skipping FH and Sydenham to go to Penge confuses me. Why would I want to do that? I would rather the old ED than several hundred thousand pounds. Sorry mate, you scored 50%. That's an E Grade.

SimonM - How can you compare a Deli with a Second Hand / Charity shop in terms of success?

P.S Had to use Jockey1 because I need to activate my official Jockey username...but don't have the time right now...

[capt_birdseye]

Well the old ED is gone for ever so you'd best take the cash and run. My point is, why bother moving to FH if you think you'll have to move again in a few years for exactly the same reason as you're leaving ED? Why not move somewhere that's likely to be sh*t for a lot longer and save yourself the hassle of having to move every couple of years? Actually does it really matter where you live? You sound like someone who is happiest sitting at home on your own and swearing at the telly.

[Guest]

Sir,

After the boom in house prices for ED, I'm getting a taste for investing when I buy (as i'm sure most people do in this day and age), which my olds didn't have when I moved to ED. So now I wouldn't buy a house, just so I can live in it and swear at the TV (which makes me ohhh so happy indeed, how did you know??), I also buy to sell later at a tidy profit. That means setting a target price, which my house value must satisfy before I move on. This may take months, it may take years. The natural progression for this would be FH, then Sydenham (don't deliberate on this, it needs its own thread).

The point i'm trying to convey, is that I would move on regardless. It's just the 'change' in ED has acted like a catalyst.

(P.S, there is no need for swearing whichever way you type it. It induces violence.)

[Jeremy]

Ibo Wrote:

> Organic and free range are cons for people with

> too much money .The old butchers were fine , they

> just could not compete with the supermarkets . The

> new butcher is no better than the old ones , he

> just has idiots as customers.

Well, William Rose IS competing with the supermarkets, by offering something different. Whether the customers are idiots or not, it's obvious that they are offering something people want.

Small shops cannot compete these days, if they're just selling the same old stuff as the supermarkets. This is not unique to East Dulwich. You cannot blame this phenomenon on the evil newcomers who have infiltrated your beloved neighbourhood!

[capt_birdseye]

Jockey, I hope you and your money will be very happy together.

[Guest]

Captain,

Very noble of you.

Jockey

[Quaywe]

If it's a butcher every 5 metre and crummy old pubs you want; Rye Lane is just up the road and there's plenty of cheap accommodation around it as well (so long as you stay away from Bellenden Rd).

Those who know me on this forum know that I love local businesses and hate chain stores. I as a home owner am certainly one who is benefiting from the gentrification of ED. At this stage that gentrification includes a reasonable mix of local independent boutique shops and grocers and some nasty, but not all that bad, chain stores.

What scares me is when the real chain stores like Tesco, Weatherspoons and Starbucks try and come to town. That's when gentrification will turn in to "we-look-like-every-other-crappy-high-st-in-london-itis" and when we will all be shopping at Tesco for everything we need to buy, whether we like it or not.

I still maintain that the government needs to give local residents more more choice in what businesses can open their doors in their local town centres. For some reason that option seems to be alien to the government. This is not specific to Southwark either, this is country wide.

[mockney piers]

On a really really pedantic point a catalyst is a factor that stimulates a reaction or change of state. I don't think change itself can act like a catalyst. I'd say the deregulation of the banking industry was probably the catalyst that has brought about the change we're seeing in East Dulwich.

Aaaaaanyway, on a slightly minor point, the Butcher's (I always forget its name) doesn't seem to me to be overpriced as their produce is a darn sight cheaper than Sainsbury's though I guess there is room to argue that I've hardly got a good cross section of outlets there;* mind you I'm not overly keen on some of the 'traditional' high street butchers I have up here in Camden?.

If you want overpriced, go to Borough Market.

*you see, you see, I can do it too.

?where I work, rather than live.

[Guest]

Very true, but this is like the halfway stage on the route to a full blown chainstore complex. 15 years ago ED was as unique and special as you could get. Soon we will get all the big chain stores.

[Guest]

Mockney piers,

If you say so!!

Jockey

[Mark]

Soon we will get all the big chain stores

How do you know ?

[Guest]

Look at Peckham high street.

Jockey

[Huguenot]

Lol

erm.. yeah.. right.. that's because Peckham was gentrified before East Dulwich, and then they got the chain stores?

Lol

[Joe likes dinner]

dear jockey,

you say i watch too much tv and all that i write of is about nothing but ''some dirt-town in Glasgow''. I say to you to browse away from property.com and have a quick read of what you intend to write about...

indeed, by watching too much tv and never going anywhere near clapham i soon learned that many of the people in a Glasgow dirt town are

''30-something city folk with porsches, not much taste, loud obnoxious voices which jabber on about their prep school days and being cads. To them, they live in Claaaam, or Chelsea South. These folk wear pink cashmere jumpers over their shoulders no matter what the social event.''

Your fine self, however, through not watching TV has evidently not become obsessed by making money from the property market and the self-serving money making which therein lies, which, last time i tuned into the old box, was pretty much all that was being talked of.

No doubt you can use some of your profits to buy a lovely high-collared pullover from White Stuff - treat yourself, you deserve it ;)