What has happened to my ED!!

[Guest]

I have never seen Lordship Lane looking so lonely and depressed as it does at the moment. Walsh Glaziers has moved from it's spiritual home, and lays derlict until some awful boring chain store opens it's door at some point. The Edwardes family moved their business out only to be replaced by some clone of a coffee shop selling over priced rubbish. The charity/second hand shop opposite which sold prams and toys and all sorts has been replaced by a ghastly "Claphamite deli", not fitting to the area at all. Tons of horrid little boutique stores everywhere, pubs which have either changed name and lost meaning or started selling food! My first trip back home to East Dulwich in 12 years, and I am confronted with some sort of attempt at Claphamisation... How awful... What has happened here??

[Huguenot]

Pffft....

[mockney piers]

Julie, see multiple threads passim for endless warblings on this very subject. I think most forumites are all warbled out I'm afraid.

[Jeremy]

I'm sorry, but who could seriously miss a glaziers??

[Keef]

Out of interest, where have you been for 12 years?!

[Mark]

12 years away from home eh Julie? You must have been really naughty.

[georgia]

I think I'd prefer good pubs selling food and cafes and boutiques to charity shops and whatever else used to be here. Who would have wanted to live in ED 12 years ago - I heard it was a no-go area a few years ago.

[Joe likes dinner]

12 years spent searching for the perfect remedy to hole in wall overlooking the garden only to return to find the only people who you thought could solve the problem that plagued you for a decade was no longer?

I'd be pretty pissed off.

[Guest]

"good pubs" what on earth does that mean? maybe for you but not for me georgina, I find it kind of offensive that you say ED was a "no go area", thats absolutely rubbish, obviously you are one the people who brought this wave of claphamisation here, but let me reassure you the area was perfectly fine before tany sort of transformation took place! I dont miss a glaziers either jeremy, I miss a local family run business which was on Lordship Lane for decades until this gentrification. What is replacing it I ask you? Keef I moved to Australia in 1995 because I was not getting any sun here lol, and found out that sunshine is about the only positive thing about where I ended up, Sydney has many social problems far worse than London, so thought I would look at coming back here, been here for 4 weeks now, and it certainly isnt pleasing to my eye, not the ED I left.

[Keef]

I didn't like Sydney that much, Melbourne much better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm from ED too, and I know what you're saying, I came back from 5 years up North in 2001, and was shocked at the changes then (EDT serving young people being the main one), but I imagine it's quite a shock after 12 years!!!

I would like to say that the posts above are very quick to attack someone who's just making a point... Wherever you're from, coming back after 12 years away, especially 12 years the other side of the planet, you're going to be shocked by it!

There are generally nice people on this forum, and there are a couple of people from ED that HATE anything resembling change, and a couple of "newbies" that seem to think that if you're from ED pre 2000, you're a working class cokney "cor blimey guv'na" type, and that you don't really warrent having an opinion.

Both of these groups are tw*ts quite frankly!

On the bright side, there are plenty of nice things about the area, which I think you'll discover. I personally love The CPT, on Crytal Palace Road, as it's still a pub, and whilst it's far from perfect, it's a nice place for a drink. Some of the new bars on the Lane are pretty good. Inside 72 has a nice vibe, but is too small, and The Black Cherry is good for a cocktail, and the barman Jamie is a top fella!

Anyway, welcome home, I hope you fall back in love with the place, and you're not the only one who thinks that everything is better. Not all change is good!

[georgia]

Quite honestly I don't care what ED was like 12 years ago - I moved here 3 years ago because of the restaurants and pubs and train links to London Bridge. I am sure that's why most people moved live here! I actually don't think that ED is anything special and there are loads of other areas of London I would rather live in.

Personally I do not see any problems with Clapham. Re-generation of areas should be seen as a positive thing as far as I am concerned.

I think all this debate about ED being the new Clapham, and this being a bad thing, is getting boring. Sorry if it was a shock for you coming back after 12 years but did you really expect it to be exactly the same?

[James]

Basically it used to be a bit like Penge. Now it's more like Clapham. I know which I prefer.

[mockney piers]

Well I grew up in Letchworth which was a sleepy little leafy suburban town full of nice but weird people, rundown shops shops, no good restaurants and 2 (rather violent) pubs and had tall trees.

Now, 16 years later I find that it's an expensive sleepy little suburban town full of nice but weird people and commuters, little boutiques, has several substandard restaurants and about 7 pubs (only 2 of which are you likely to be beaten senseless in by resentful thugs i actually went to school with, who hate bloody blow-ins from london), a nice wine bar, and the tall trees have been chopped down to make way for landscaped nonsense.

Spooky.

So things change, Julie, I'm sure you'll adjust, why not come down to the EDT forum drink on saturday and find out that we're an ok bunch, even the ones who have a whiff of clapham about them.

[nutty]

James Wrote:

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> Basically it used to be a bit like Penge. Now it's

> more like Clapham. I know which I prefer.

Weird - I was just about to post a suggestion that Julie might like to move to Penge....

[Huguenot]

I'm always entertained by this unresolved 'sh*t' pub observation - what exactly can you mean?

The outside decor of the most changed pubs - the forresters, palmerston, uplands or magdala for example - was peeling, dirty paint and broken, rusted, stained windows, so I can't imagine that a lick of paint and a tidy actually makes that worse

Likewise the inside decor of these pubs was stained, stinking carpets, broken chairs, ripped upholstery and nicotine stained ceilings. Hence I can't believe that you feel a tidy up on this decor would actually make it worse either.

Julie, you toss the word 'food' out like it's an insult. I'd hazard that the priorities with food are that it is healthy, nutritious, widely available and full of variety. Hence its availability in a pub simply gives you options, you don't actually have to eat it if you don't want it. So to hate a pub because it gives you more options is, well, peculiar.

The beer's still there, albeit with wider options, and at prices that reflect the pricing right across London.

The 'Claphamisation' you refer to is not imposed upon ED, it's a consequence of businesses bringing goods and services which the local population like to spend their cash on.

So if all that is better, much the same or outside our control, then you will forgive the readers of this forum for coming to the conclusion that what Julie really hates is the people.

So Keef, what the respondents are saying is not that Julie isn't entitled to her view, but that they are disappointed by her unnecessary, thinly veiled and very personal attack on them. An attack on their appearance, their values, their taste, their friends, the food they eat, the beer they drink, the conversations they have.

It's just, you know, unpleasant. No wonder Sydney wasn't up to scratch, maybe they're too nice to accept that kind of attitude?

[Mark]

'Julie', what other shops were in ED when you were here 12 years ago that have now gone? Which other local family run business do you miss?

[mockney piers]

nutty Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> James Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Basically it used to be a bit like Penge. Now

> it's

> > more like Clapham. I know which I prefer.

>

> Weird - I was just about to post a suggestion that

> Julie might like to move to Penge....

Strange, I was going to sugest New Cross Gate.

[Mark]

> Strange, I was going to sugest New Cross Gate.

Bizarre, I was going to suggest Parramatta

[capt_birdseye]

I grew up in Clapham. My family moved there in '83 and quite frankly it was a bit of sh*t-hole. Northcote Road was a dump with a cr*ppy market selling decrepit vegetables. The estate at the top end of the Northcote Road housed an IRA bomb factory which was discovered on the same day as the Lockerbie disaster. It still wasn't all that when I went off to University in 1992.

I moved back to London in 96 to find it considerably changed, both in the people who now lived there - a major influx of affluent young people, and the make-up of the street itself, lots of trendy bars & restaurants, coffee houses and a revamped market. Yes the level of change shocked me but I can't see it as anything other than a vast improvement to how it was before! So for people to continually hark on about how "bad" Clapham now is really makes me laugh. OK, I can't afford to live there any more, so I've ended up in ED, but you don't hear me bleating on about the nasty rich people who forced me out of the neighbourhood I grew up in.

It's called change, it's called progress and let's face it, it's for the good of everyone. Incomers move into a nice, upcoming area and existing residents, if they so choose can cash in the massive equity they now have in their homes. Populations shift, especially in London, I doubt you'll find many London families who have lived in the city for more than 5 generations. It's what makes this city special, the fact that it is constantly changing.

Thank you for listening, I'm here all week.

[Michael Palaeologus]

I was here 12 years ago - come to think of it I was here 19 years ago and next years is my whateveritis anniversary.

In those halcyon days there was a rubbish Gateway supermarket and a rubbish Coop supermarket. That was it.

The locals had rickets. Some things dont change.

Presumably Julie moved to Australia to access the fresh citrus fruit that they have in those parts.

[capt_birdseye]

Yeah. I loved the East Dulwich of 12 yrs ago so much that I moved to the other side of the planet.

[Guest]

I liked it when there was a gateway and coop. I could get on the bus for 20p to go to school and always got a seat. Now I give my seat to a poor girl who tells her mate on the phone how hard it is to be a receptionist.

I am totally in awe of the new fancy shops that have come up after 2000. I just wonder how they make any money!! It's all trash - and no one is ever in them!

Anyways ED has become like every other city commuter place. Loads of rental accomodation to be used like ragged cloth over and over again. Cheesy shops to be seen in for that classy look. Crowded bus routes - a great chance to boast to a locked in audience. If you think East Dulwich has changed for the better, you're sadly mistaken.

Two good things to come from the last 8 years - Rise in house prices, decent pubs.

I'm off to Forest Hill - and when FH becomes like Dulwich (as concentric ring expands like a bad smell), I will go to Sydenham.

[Guest]

Jockey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I liked it when there was a gateway and coop. I

> could get on the bus for 20p to go to school and

> always got a seat. Now I give my seat to a poor

> girl who tells her mate on the phone how hard it

> is to be a receptionist.

>

> I am totally in awe of the new fancy shops that

> have come up after 2000. I just wonder how they

> make any money!! It's all trash - and no one is

> ever in them!

>

> Anyways ED has become like every other city

> commuter place. Loads of rental accomodation to be

> used like ragged cloth over and over again. Cheesy

> shops to be seen in for that classy look. Crowded

> bus routes - a great chance to boast to a locked

> in audience. If you think East Dulwich has changed

> for the better, you're sadly mistaken.

>

> Two good things to come from the last 8 years -

> Rise in house prices, decent pubs.

>

> I'm off to Forest Hill - and when FH becomes like

> Dulwich (as concentric ring expands like a bad

> smell), I will go to Sydenham.

Good luck to you . The people who say ED was a dump many years ago are dishonest . We had real shops such as butchers round every corner and TWO grocery shops in LL , amongst many others . There are two very nasty byproducts being caused by the newcomers ;

Social and Ethnic cleansing through market forces .

[Michael Palaeologus]

Ibo. I love you. I disagree with you - but you are true to your convictions and hold your corner in the face of much abuse - some of it from me.

BUT. There was never a time when there were butchers round EVERY corner. People would have had terrible health problems and an awful diet ........ then again

[Jeremy]

Julie Wrote:

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> I dont miss a glaziers either jeremy,

> I miss a local family run business which was on

> Lordship Lane for decades until this

> gentrification. What is replacing it I ask you?

Erm... the business is still in East Dulwich, just down the road. We're losing nothing. The site is being replaced by a rather bland clothes shop, but at least clothes shops are more suited to the high street, where they might attract passing trade. Things change in 12 years, and there are other parts of London which have changed even more than ED. And yes Ibo, many people are being priced out of the market, regardless of their background - but again, this has happened all over London to varying degrees. To focus all of your contempt towards the "newcomers" to your local area is rather silly.