Kingsdale School Ofsted?

[Queenie23]

Kingsdale is like a cult - you have to pretend everything is wonderful, it's the most amazing school etc etc. It's a good school but it's no better than most out there.

[intexasatthe moment]

Kingsdale remains a fantastic school that parents are desperate to send their children to .

Thank heavens it has finally become this after years of effort from the headteacher and staff .

Ofsted's positive comments while being off the shelf standard Ofsted speak should be celebrated .

We shouldn't dismiss the positive in this report but equally we shouldn't dismiss Ofsted's views regarding the concerns brought to them by some staff .

As I've said before ,it will have taken a great deal of effort ,concern and courage for staff to voice criticisms of the school .

I think it is great credit to the teachers who have concerns that they have remained ( and that they have not allowed their views to affect the smooth running of the school and their teaching of pupils ) and that they are seeking an improvement in the situation . It shows their commitment to their profession .

To keep referring to this as " oh wherever you work there are always some unhappy staff who can't handle change " is ,in my view ,unhelpful and patronising .

The school has made fantastic improvements ,but these shouldn't be at any cost and they need to be sustainable .

I'm sure that Kingsdale will address the issues noted by Ofsted ,to ignore them will jepordise the longterm success of the school .

[westof]

village people Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I find it very disappointing though to see that

> most of the negative and speculative comments

> regarding Kingsdale come from people who have no

> or little first had experience of the school but

> rather a significant few who seem to have no

> connection with the school at all.

It's a little odd isn't it, all these people with friends in the school who mention things to them.

I'm not surprised the head didn't go down the (apparently usual) route of passing on feedback to staff immediately after the inspection with a polite request to keep confidential until the actual report was published. Since there were clearly a minority (significant or otherwise) of people willing to drip feed the odd nugget on here if it suited them.

I'm happy to discuss the issues now the full report is out - though (without wanting to stifle discussion) whether a very public foum is the best place to do this rather depends on your agenda.

I'm very conscious of the fact that as a parent, I don't tell teachers how to teach - though of course I would want to know they are doing their job properly.

Equally, I wouldn't presume to tell anyone how to run a school or a team of staff - though of course I would want to know this was being done properly as well.

And I don't think it would be appropriate for parents to know who this 'significant minority' of unhappy teachers are, (unless they actually wanted to make themselves known of course) which does beg the problem of how parents would ever know if these issues have been resolved.

Metallic, with your background in mediation, and your claim to have to no links to school other than as an interested outsider and no axe to grind, (correct me if I've muddled you with someone else), do you have any positive suggestions on resolving this?

[westof]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As I've said before ,it will have taken a great

> deal of effort ,concern and courage for staff to

> voice criticisms of the school .

> I think it is great credit to the teachers who

> have concerns that they have remained ( and that

> they have not allowed their views to affect the

> smooth running of the school and their teaching of

> pupils ) and that they are seeking an improvement

> in the situation . It shows their commitment to

> their profession .

Broadly, I agree with this, and hope that even if some people have found that the only way they can make their concerns known is via unorthodox methods, they are still willing to see a positive outcome.

[prickle]

Totally agree with everything you said intexas. Also slightly puzzled why you have to be a parent at KD to have an opinion/interest. Ofsted report is in the public domain and it is in the community's interest that state-funded schools are as good as they can be.

[Metallic]

I do have a view on this westof. I think when rumours swirl in public, as they have in this case from both sides, the best action is to be open and upfront about whatever are the issues. The mere fact that so much is unsubstantiated is a problem but it remains true, as far as I can see, that claims of public exams cheating have yet to be reported on by the exam boards, after 8 months, and that as the school has made no public statement whatsoever to confirm or deny this has been looked in to by them at least, they have created their own problem. A public statement by the Head and the Governors acknowledging this problem would have nipped the rumours in the bud. The staff, pupils, parents and the public for yes, this is a public concern, would then know a proper investigation by independent investigators, would be taking place. The group of teachers who are seemingly hoping to bring this and other matters in to the public domain have at least made their side of the issue clear because otherwise I doubt this inspection would have taken place. So in other words I would suggest that secrecy on one side and therefore what could be seen as unsubstantiated claims by the other side, have created this.

Speaking as a parent I actually think parents and prospective parents deserve more from what is supposed to be an outstanding school full of children just wanting to make the most of their education, and staff who want to teach. It is a gross distraction and I think the Head is to blame for that.

[intexasatthe moment]

Since there were clearly a minority (significant or otherwise) of people willing to drip feed the odd nugget on here if it suited them.

I have read posts on here which keep stressing the three areas of debate ,all already in the public domain ( admissions policy ,alleged exam misspractice ,group of teachers raising concerns ) as though these completely negate the good things at Kingsdale .

But a drip feed of nuggets ? Have I missed something ?

[prickle]

Metallic said "The mere fact that so much is unsubstantiated is a problem but it remains true, as far as I can see, that claims of public exams cheating have yet to be reported on by the exam boards, after 8 months, and that as the school has made no public statement whatsoever to confirm or deny this has been looked in to by them at least, they have created their own problem. A public statement by the Head and the Governors acknowledging this problem would have nipped the rumours in the bud. "

I think this is the nub of the issue. The silence from the school and the attempts at gagging debate on this forum only feeds speculation and the feeling that they have something to hide. KD uses PR to promote itself ruthlessly but has failed to use it to deal with the negative stuff.

[westof]

Metallic Wrote:

> The group of teachers who are

> seemingly hoping to bring this and other matters

> in to the public domain have at least made their

> side of the issue clear because otherwise I doubt

> this inspection would have taken place.

Ah - perhaps the big mystery of why the inspection was called...

I certainly don't think you need to be a Kingsdale parent to have an interest - I would be just as concerned by all of this if I wasn't a parent, and much more so if I was a prospective parent.

But it's hard to know what pressure parents can bring to the situation, let alone people who aren't (yet) connected to the school, other than to make it known that we have read the report and want some confirmation that the issues are being addressed, without taking it upon ourselves to interfere in things we don't neccessarily understand. (I'm only speaking for myself, but I have no background in education or management).

And again, it's hard to know how the school could reassure the wider community that issues are or have been adequately addressed, without having some kind of public meeting where we can all ask individual teachers face to face to tell us in confidence if they feel adequately supported.

Perhaps in that case, it might be best if there was another OFSTED inspection sooner rather than later, since the results of that would be made available to the general public and we could see if the issues raised in this inspection have been addressed?

And this does indeed seem to be the opinion of OFSTED: "the timing of the school?s next inspection will be affected" so I think another inspection is to be welcomed rather than seen as a punishment, even if it is stressful to be inspected. If it provokes the school into fixing any weaknesses that may have developed, then surely that can only be a good thing.

[westof]

prickle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Metallic said "The mere fact that so much is

> unsubstantiated is a problem but it remains true,

> as far as I can see, that claims of public exams

> cheating have yet to be reported on by the exam

> boards, after 8 months, and that as the school has

> made no public statement whatsoever to confirm or

> deny this has been looked in to by them at least,

> they have created their own problem. A public

> statement by the Head and the Governors

> acknowledging this problem would have nipped the

> rumours in the bud. "

>

> I think this is the nub of the issue. The silence

> from the school and the attempts at gagging debate

> on this forum only feeds speculation and the

> feeling that they have something to hide. KD uses

> PR to promote itself ruthlessly but has failed to

> use it to deal with the negative stuff.

I wonder if it is relevant that the Ofsted inspection makes absolutely no reference (positive or negative) to cheating or exam practices?

Would that be something we should expect an OFSTED inspection to mention if they had concerns?

[Metallic]

They are separate entities and would not tread on each other's feet, I am sure. Maybe there will be another inspection when the results of the exam board enquiries are published.

By the way you don't need a public meeting to talk to teachers, this matter is really ongoing, and when it is all over I would expect Southwark as a previous education authority, and whatever the new system running academies is called, to provide answers to all the concerns of ALL parties.

[BB100]

prickle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Metallic said "The mere fact that so much is

> unsubstantiated is a problem but it remains true,

> as far as I can see, that claims of public exams

> cheating have yet to be reported on by the exam

> boards, after 8 months, and that as the school has

> made no public statement whatsoever to confirm or

> deny this has been looked in to by them at least,

> they have created their own problem. A public

> statement by the Head and the Governors

> acknowledging this problem would have nipped the

> rumours in the bud. "

>

> I think this is the nub of the issue. The silence

> from the school and the attempts at gagging debate

> on this forum only feeds speculation and the

> feeling that they have something to hide. KD uses

> PR to promote itself ruthlessly but has failed to

> use it to deal with the negative stuff.

But didn't someone say on the forum a while back that exam investigations are supposed to be confidential and the exam boards and school are not allowed to publish the results? If so, the school wouldn't be able to say anything about it even if it wanted to.

[westof]

So if you are right, and the results of the exam boards enquiries have yet to be published, then perhaps that is why the school is unable to make any public comment to confirm or deny the allegations?

In which case, frustrating as it is, perhaps we will just have to wait for the results to be published, and for the next inspection to take place and be published.

And meanwhile it would be wrong to stifle honest speculation and discussion, frustrating as that may be for the school when it it isn't in a position to comment either way - but we could remember that is all just speculation.

(And yes, my suggestion of a public meeting was facetious, but only because despite my nosiness, this kind of thing really is outside my sphere of experience).

[westof]

(cross-posting - I was replying to Metallic as well)

[Metallic]

I cannot believe that IF there is a scandal over cheating that reports can be kept private. It is not just a question of naming names, although it may come to it, (these could be redacted anyway) but if this has gone on then the integrity of the school and the greater group of teachers has to be restored. Similarly, if the school and teachers are exonerated, there will have to be an inquiry in order to clarify the reason such claims were made. It will all have to come out in the open whether the school want that or not.

[westof]

But if, as yuo say, the results have yet to be published, then there is really nothing the school can say at this point?

[Metallic]

They should have acknowledged it openly ages ago westof, when it all came to light.

[MGolden]

When allegations are made about an organisation (or individual)that organisation cannot comment about those allegations other than, as was the case in summer, to say the organisation is confident that any investigation will determine the truth or otherwise of allegations made.

At the Parents Forum meeting last week the head was as clear as he could be without breaching confidentiality that the school would work with unhappy staff and to provide support.

Metallic - I think it's fabulous that you are so engaged with the discussion about local education provision and completely understand as you have said you will be looking at secondary school provision next year for your child although I am also a little surprised that you do not seem to have seen the positives in the OFSTED letter. I read it and thought it was largely positive whilst acknowledging that there are problems perceived by some staff.

[prickle]

Metallic said "By the way you don't need a public meeting to talk to teachers, this matter is really ongoing, and when it is all over I would expect Southwark as a previous education authority, and whatever the new system running academies is called, to provide answers to all the concerns of ALL parties."

KD is an academy and academies are outside of LA control. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the next authority up from the headteacher and governors of KD is the secretary of state for education ie Mr Gove. Southwark is toothless when it comes to dealing with KD and other academies.

Although Southwark is far from perfect, we should be worrying about possible abuse of the freedom that academies enjoy. From that point of view, I think that the debate we have on EDF is a good thing.

[Metallic]

These alleged incidents took place when the school was under Southwark's control.

[Curmudgeon]

The alleged scandal was surely over the GCSE exams which the students were awarded by the exam bodies last summer which leads me to believe that there was no issue (or significant issue) found

[Metallic]

Oh, so where was this announced, since the Exam boards said they were going to look in to it all? If the school have the all clear I would like to know.

[Curmudgeon]

Evening Standard back in August

"An investigation by exam boards into claims of cheating at Kingsdale Foundation School in Dulwich is looking at vocational qualifications, after initially focusing on AS-levels and GCSEs so that results can be given out on time, said a source. It has been alleged pupils were given too much help with exams. Head Steve Morrison said awarding bodies were satisfied the integrity of GCSEs and AS-levels was not impaired"

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23978558-students-fight-for-a-place-on-company-sponsored-degrees.do

It's not as newsworthy as 'scandal' so no other info to be found anywhere

[Metallic]

So then there are no ongoing issues at all? The exam boards completely cleared the school of all these queries?

[Debster99]

Metallic i would have a break from this , this forum is on page 6 with most posts fuelled by your comments and result no futher forward ? It started off with the Ofsted visit which i truly believe every parent and prospective parent has and rightly so a genuine interest in.

We have had the results which have caused a good debate with various differing opinions and in summary not the best outcome but certainly not worthy of some of the slander that has been posted. I think as a parent and i hope others agree, Kingsdale still has the excellent qualities that attracted us in the first place and at present is still providing a stable and in my opinion good education for our children ?

I also have confidence that the SMT will take these issues raised in the report on board and move forward.

Regarding the issue that you have really been digging at Metallic , the GCSE exams taken last summer were checked and results awarded as per normal , this is old news. As for the school issuing a PR message , on what ? At present there is nothing to comment on.