Some advice/a moan:ruby wedding

[newcomer]

To answer your original questions:

Question 1: am I being grumpy thinking this is a bit much?

Answer 1: Yes, a bit grumpy (but, hey, that's what the EDF is for! To let out all these little grievances ;-)). It's only 55 quid per family. For a ruby anniversary present, I'd say that's on the low side.

Question 2: Are presents expected? I thought our presence at the lunch was what was expected.

Answer 2: Presents are absolutely expected. The attendance at the lunch is obligatory too of course. It would be very rude if you didn't go, plus you'd be missing out on what sounds like a lovely family celebration.

Question 3: if buying presents is the norm, is specifying what you want a bit on the cheeky side?

Answer 3: Hmm, I see what you mean, but it's not usually cheeky when it's close family. My family often gives 'hints', but I guess we're big on presents and celebrations so it's viewed as being considerate as you're saving the present-buyer time and effort in trying to figure out what to buy.

(By the way, I loved your photo album present idea- that is very thoughtful and I'm sure they'd appreciate it if you went ahead anyway and made it as an extra surprise to supplement the War Horse tickets?)

I reckon that if you go with a happy heart, then you'll probably have a truly great time and, even if you don't, it's worth it for your daughter to bond with her grandparents:

http://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/family/grandparents.html

I hope you and your family (husband, daughter, in-laws) ALL have a wonderful day.

[Bumpkin]

I guess the present request should also be taken in the context of what they think you can afford as if you were on low incomes then rather cheeky, but if you were say corporate lawyers then not such an ask really.

[Vickster]

Really? I find the notion that 'I can ask X for an expensive present because they can afford it" particularly distasteful. If I was asked what I would like for a birthday present, my answer would not depend on the income of the person posing the question. Equally, I would only ever offer suggestions which were small items. I guess it comes back to different families' ways of doing things though and expectations.

I am a lawyer as it happens, but not fee-earning.

[catgirl]

I doubt if many people ask for presents based on income of the giver but more what they want within what is historically the value of presents exchanged between them, providing the giver can afford.

For whatever reason, I guess your in laws think ?50 - 60 for a present for a big anniversary is what you'd be planning to spend and so have asked for a present accordingly. Maybe they also felt they didn't want you buying them something for all that money which maybe not exactly what they want so better to ask for something specific so money is well spent. Also, I know my parents are more and more keen to be given things like meals out, cinema vouchers etc rather than endless 'stuff' which they already have lots of.

As you say, it depends on different families and the way they do things - I guess in their family it is normal / expected to give a big present on such occasions so wouldn't seem greedy or out of the ordinary to them although may seem so to others who have different traditions.

[VanessaPMR]

...mmm..Vickster, I've been there once to often and have consequentially started saying no. I also have a daughter who hates being in the car, gets car sick, throws up all over herself in it, wont sleep, and therefore car journeys are a torture for both her and me. Life is much much too short to (willfully) do things that make you and your child unhappy.

If it were only you going up for the celebration that would be another thing..the celebration's success would purely be a function of your presence..but it seems there are others to keep the elders entertained? Call me a selfish so and so but I'd say: dont go, buy the tickets + chuck in a bottle of bubbly while you're at it (heck you'll be saving X times more than that by not going) and send them your heartfelt commiserations for your non-attendance. Yes, I am a bad bad person... ;-)

Plus, if you do feel guilty, you'll be having to spend another weekend with them in the not to distant future by the sounds of things..so you can celebrate it with them again, then.

[Vickster]

Thanks for all the responses. I have gleaned that such celebrations are usual, a big deal, and a present is required, but asking for something probably is a little cheeky. I have resigned myself to going, and buying the tickets so that is that. Snow is forecast Sunday though, so we might yet have an escape plan!

Hilariously, an invitation arrived today to husband's aunt and uncles's 25th wedding anniversary, also in Bedford, but in the evening. No way are we going to that!

[Chippy Minton]

Think yourself lucky. Bedford is hardly the other end of the country. We were expected, and went to, my mum's 70th birthday two weeks after the birth of our second. It was a five hour drive. In snow. And we had to leave in evening rushhour.

[Smiler]

How cheeky. Get'em cinema tickets to War Horse and feign ignorance of a stage version!

[womanofdulwich]

Vickster I am worried about your take on family celebrations. a 25th wedding anniversary? why on earth not ?

[Vickster]

Because we are now into extended family! What does his aunt and uncle's wedding anniversary have to do with him? Also for all of the other reasons discussed above (travel, and taking two little ones to something that starts at 7pm)!

[Knomester]

From reading everyone's responses it seems to me that this type of celebration (or not) is different for every family. Based on my own experience, Vickster, I would not agree that such celebrations are usual, a big deal or that a present is required, but it does appear to be the case for some families.

To give you an example, my parents celebrated their ruby wedding anniversary recently. I sent them a card, which they were surprised to receive (not because I'm not a sender of cards, but because we would never normally exchange cards for wedding anniversaries), but other than from my Granny I don't think they received any other cards or gifts. They celebrated by spending a wonderful day out together, including a slap up lunch, and I imagine hat very few people would even have known it was their ruby wedding anniversary.

To me (probably because I'm their child!) this is normal, because a wedding anniversary is a personal celebration between husband and wife. That's not to say that I wouldn't have understood if they had wanted to celebrate a 'big' wedding anniversary, but in those circumstances they still wouldn't have expected cards or gifts people to spend money on celebrating with them.

I have every sympathy for how difficult the journey to and attendance at the lunch might be for you. Baby Knomester doesn't really sleep anywhere but in his cot or travelcot so if that was us, he would miss his nap altogether (which now he is older doesn't concern me but it would have done when he was still a small baby). I would hope that if my MIL planned a big family lunch she would think to consult me on what time of day would be suitable if I had a small baby (an early or late sitting for example to allow for a nap), but we have had to fit in with other family events like a recent 90th birthday party. We had one extremely over tired, cheeky toddler, but it was just one day and important for us to be there with family.

[oimissus]

on a practical note, if your daughter is hating her car seat and about to grow out of it, might it be worth getting the next size up now? Or, as someone else suggested, look into getting the train - much easier to keep a child entertained!

I know that these things can seem such a hassle when you have a little one, but it is just one day and I'm sure it'll be very appreciated. I've found that family things are much more important now I have a child (though I always liked them before) - my daughter's christening was a perfect family day. And grandparents won't be around forever. You said they're nice but irritating - focus on the nice bit - these may be the grandparents who'll take the children off your hands for a welcome break in years to come!

[Kalamiphile]

Having read through all the comments, the only one that occurs to me is 'what does the husband/partner/son' feel about all of this. Maybe it is for the both of you to discuss and compromise on future events. After all without them you would not have him or the particular child you currently enjoy and maybe this is important to him to keep up with these family functions. x

[Saffron]

Vickster, how lovely that your Husband's aunt and uncle thought about you and sent you an invitation, even though they may realize that you won't be able to come. Afterall, if everyone else was sent an invitation and not you, it would have been a terrible slight, no?

As someone mentioned previously, saying "no" can be a good thing, but so too can compromise. It sounds like you're striking a pretty decent balance between the two, which must be tough in your circumstances. I wonder, is it really the event (ruby wedding) and gift issues that's the problem, or do you also feel that your personal contribution including looking after the little ones and struggling with travel, naps, etc is being overlooked by your in-laws and/or husband? I only ask, b/c I feel that way too sometimes, sigh.

In which case, perhaps your husband needs to let his parents know that they need to do something special to say Thank You, by way of recognizing that it's not easy to bustle children about the country when you have a very busy schedule at home. Afterall, it's fine for them to ask for a special gift, so it should be fine for your husband to ask for a special Thank You!

On a personal note (and I know every feels differently, just thought I'd mention this for perspective...)

My father-in-law was a real pain in the arse, but he was wonderful with our daughter. He died quite suddenly last winter. We do all miss him very much. My daughter was less than a year old when he passed, so she will never remember playing with him. And we only have just a couple of pictures of them together. From that point of view, some of the comments in this thread seem very materialistic. If children do actually have grandparents who love them and want to see them, it's a blessing. Sacrificing our time and energy as parents to make that happen is not a meaningless or minor task.

I hope one day that my daughter will have children and bring them to visit me. And I'll try not to be a pain in the arse! xx

[Vickster]

Kalamiphile - he doesn't think the ruby wedding stuff is a big deal, hence the post really. As I have no point of reference from my own family I wanted to see how others dealt with these milestones. As regards the aunt/uncle wedding anniversary, he took one look at the invite and said "they'll be lucky" (unprompted and with no comment from me I hasten to add!), so we have some common ground.

Saffron, another example of how different families are, I think it is weird that we have been invited, but I appreciate that others will see this as perfectly normal. I am totally with Knomester on this. I see an anniversary as an occasion between husband and wife, very personal. We get anniversary cards from his parents (and yes aunt and uncle too) and I think it is really odd. I can't help it, that is just the experiences from my upbringing.

Saffron, you may be right about the personal contribution. Not wanting to gripe about them again, but a recent example of how this family works was my husband's brother's wedding. Obviously we all went and I would not have expected not to. He was best man, so I was left pretty much on my own the entire day with a 3 year old and a 6 month old. I had suggested early on that perhaps it would be better all round if the littlest one stayed with my sister, but that did not go down well at all. I was assured by parents in law, in no uncertain terms, that they would be around to help loads during the day. Well of course I didn't see either of them for dust, oh except for the 10 minutes my father in law gave me to get dressed for the wedding, during which he let my baby fall off the bed. Oh, and it was also my birthday. So yes, I think I may be smarting a little from that whole experience!

[Kalamiphile]

That sounds awful, poor you, no wonder you are smarting. Maybe hubby could be a bit more assertive on your behalf, after all they are not likely to disinherit him, or are they?? Surely if he knows how hard this is for you, he could make quite justifable excuses re travelling with baby and go on his own or simply tell them this is too disruptive right now but would love to come when baby is older. I wonder if you feel you are doing the complaining and despite him agreeing with you nothing is resolved.

[Saffron]

Yes unfortunately my experience with family/friends saying they will help at these kinds of things, is that they don't actually end up being able to do so (or the help they do give is totally not what you needed). If you think in advance that you will need a lot of help, it's best to bring a sitter with you.

[reren]

I cant figure out a way to make this not sound preachy - and Im no saint when it comes to my in laws but have you tried putting yourself in their place. Imagine how you will feel in the future when your kids have their own families when you feel like you want to celebrate something really significant to you with your children and grandchildren. They are presumably the people who you love most in the world and enjoy spending time with the most. You'll presumably do your best to put up with the grumpy woman/man they've married. I think it must be hard to adjust after being in charge of all family celebrations / codes of conduct for years and years - and then have to adjust to your family not really being yours any more and now you have to navigate the rules of your son/ daughter in laws. Not surprising that people get it wrong and arent brilliant at being in laws...Especially the parents of sons - often its cause the sOn is being wet that problems occur (in my opinion!)

[Saffron]

If you Skype/video call with relatives and in-laws it seems to go down well, and helps to keep them feeling like they're included even if you only see them a few times a year. Keep calls short and sweet, eg 10 min before bathtime. xx

[MGolden]

reren Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I cant figure out a way to make this not sound

> preachy - and Im no saint when it comes to my in

> laws but have you tried putting yourself in their

> place. Imagine how you will feel in the future

> when your kids have their own families when you

> feel like you want to celebrate something really

> significant to you with your children and

> grandchildren. They are presumably the people who

> you love most in the world and enjoy spending time

> with the most. You'll presumably do your best to

> put up with the grumpy woman/man they've married.

> I think it must be hard to adjust after being in

> charge of all family celebrations / codes of

> conduct for years and years - and then have to

> adjust to your family not really being yours any

> more and now you have to navigate the rules of

> your son/ daughter in laws. Not surprising that

> people get it wrong and arent brilliant at being

> in laws...Especially the parents of sons - often

> its cause the sOn is being wet that problems occur

> (in my opinion!)

I am one of six daughters and our family are very close (see my post above about our family celebration for my parents 50th wedding anniversary even though my father had died 23 years before!). But when I had my first son I was actually shocked that my husbands family thought they had as close a relationship with my son as my family!! It does take some working through - we see my family a lot as we are very close. We don't see my husband's family that much and then usually it's the whole family - different family dynamics are always at play.

There is no right way to do this - I hope I grow into the type of mother-in-law my sister is to her daughter-in-law but who knows.

As I get older I get less fussed by things that bothered me when I was running around after tiny children. Eventually Vickster you may look back at this weekend and think you're glad you made the effort. :)

[Coach Beth]

I find having the Atlantic ocean between myself and my family of origin a wonderful thing indeed! By the end of the two weeks visit, we start getting abit irritable but then, knowing we only see each other once a year keeps things sweet.

[NunheadGirl]

I have to say that whilst I agree travelling to see relatives can at times feel like a pain overall I have been quite surprised and saddened by how many people on this thread don't get on with their extended families.

I lost my Dad a few years ago, before having children, and my Mum is about 200 miles away and getting to an age where I know she will not be with us that much longer. I really miss seeing her on a regular basis and dread the time when I will have to explain to my children why we can't visit her any more (I had them late so they are both still young and likely to lose her before they get to double figures). I'm so glad my hubby's parents are closer, so we can get to them within an hour and therefore manage to see them more often. It is really important to me that my children know their Grandparents, and are given the chance to hear some of the family stories and history etc. whilst they are still with us.

I know the travelling can be a pain at times, but we are talking about family here.....I'm sure you would travel 1,000 miles for your own children, or think about when they are grown up, and you are missing them, how hurt you would be if they showed signs of not being willing to make the effort for you. However much I dread the journey once I am there with them it always feels worthwhile. At times we have travelled late at night, or left at 5am in order to travel at a time when it is best for the kids, and to get out of London whilst the traffic is clear - if need be can't you do that, and book a cheap hotel en route, or close to the lunch venue to make it work?

I don't know how many times a year they ask you to be with them, but regardless of what is 'normal' in your family, when you decide to marry someone you have to be open minded about accepting his families ways as much as you'd expect him to accept your traditions. It isn't always easy, but it is all part of being married. How does the saying go - you can choose your friends....but not your relatives.

I feel really blessed to have 'out-laws' I genuinely love and get on with and I know that makes it all easier, this thread had really reminded me of that even more.

As far as wedding anniversary celebrations - I agree they are generally something for the couple to celebrate privately, but if I get as far as my Ruby Wedding anniversary I'm damn sure I'm going to have a big party - in this day and age not that many people make it, and those that do deserve to be made a fuss of in my opinion!

[dulwichgirl2]

Agree with NHGirl above but, equally, we have to realise all families are different and this variation results in a stronger species and a more interesting one. I find it astonishing, for example, when I hear of gps who consider babysitting their gchildren a chore or a favour as opposed to an honour. I find it astonishing when gps blow their savings on mega cruises rather than saving it for their gchildren's school fees, that sort of weird priority. BUT, I can also see that my views are not mainstream on this - my husband's family expect to give and take from their children whereas mine expect and see it as their duty always to give to the next generation. I think either works as long as you don't get out of sync!!

[sb]

.

[Scruffy Mummy]

Quite right sb - why on earth would anyone expect their parents to cough up for school fees? In my books, parents have financial obligations to support their kids through university. Then, they've done their bit! You've raised someone to adulthood - congradulations! Now they are responsible for their lives! If they want to enjoy their retirement fair enough! I'm happy my mom has just enough to keep her living comfortably in her 80's. If I ever feel I would have to send my kid to private school (a big if) myself and my partner would sort out the finance ourselves.