Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove

[Sue]

Charles Martel Wrote:

---------------------------------------------

>

> Regardless of how you may feel East Dulwich is

> obviously not safe....... Nowhere in London is

> safe.

Nowhere anywhere is "safe" then.

If a tragic incident happens somewhere, that doesn't make the area "unsafe".

[tash b]

let Me just clear something up my brother has been the victims friend since childhood and NO it?s not drug or gang related.

Going home from a friends birthday party and refusing to give someone a cigarette 🤬

[Robert Poste's Child]

He sounds like a really nice normal guy. It really brings it home, doesn't it? Not gangs, criminals, drugs or kids messing about, just someone like you and me popping into a shop on his way home from a night out.

I think what many of us find too hard to think about is that there are people whose lives, for whatever reason, are so damaged, corrupt or brutalised that a cigarette is the price of a life.

[tash b]

Robert Poste's Child Wrote:

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> He sounds like a really nice normal guy. It really

> brings it home, doesn't it? Not gangs, criminals,

> drugs or kids messing about, just someone like you

> and me popping into a shop on his way home from a

> night out.

>

> I think what many of us find too hard to think

> about is that there are people whose lives, for

> whatever reason, are so damaged, corrupt or

> brutalised that a cigarette is the price of a

> life.

very nicely put thank u Robert poste?s child

[DulwichGlobetrotter]

I live very close to the site of this horrible crime.

Firstly, I offer my sincere condolences to the family of Dennis Anderson. I didn?t know him or any of his family or friends but, from what I?ve read in the press and on the cards and messages left for him, it sounds like he was a good family guy who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I really feel for him and his family. You wouldn?t choose to go that way. He was clearly very dearly loved given all of the flowers, candles and messages that have been left for him.

Secondly, if you do have any information that could help to catch the murderer then please do contact the police. There is a dangerous man on the loose and, judging from the newspaper reports, he seems very troubled.

Finally, I have lived all over London and moved to East Dulwich 7 years ago. I feel lucky to live here with my young family. It?s a safe place with lots of good, happy people living good, happy lives in this leafy, vibrant little town in South London.

London is a patchy, sprawling metropolis however and you do see troubled people all across the city.

When I first moved to London I lived in Islington on a fancy street. I was a young lad and got the chance to live in an old judge?s townhouse with some friends while the owner sought planning permission to go wild doing the place up. The house was a bit ramshackle but the area was stunning. Crime still happened there. A short walk in the wrong direction and things could feel a bit edgy. There were stabbings and assaults.

A friend of mine lived in Brixton in 2005 and there were shootings while he lived there. When I lived near London Bridge it seemed very safe but there were lots of troubled people who loitered in and around the station and Borough Market - the same goes for both Liverpool Street and Victoria stations (and I?ve worked near both for long periods).

London is the Big Smoke and it tends to attract (or maybe even create) troubled people. We don?t look after vulnerable people in London as well as we could.

Anyway, the point I?m labouring to make is that a horrible crime like this is, thankfully, an exceptional and awful occurrence and it could happen anywhere (sadly increasingly so across the capital). Poor Dennis wasn?t taking a terrible risk by going to the cornershop in the wee hours of the morning. He was just unlucky that someone unhinged walked in after him.

The good people who knew Dennis have been writing messages about how much they loved him. It seems to me that they won?t let the manner of his tragic death define him. Quite right. Similarly the good people of East Dulwich won?t let this tragedy define our community.

I?ll be taking my little boy out on his scooter, walking the dog in the nearby parks, visiting Champion Hill to cheer on the Hamlet and dining and shopping along Lordship Lane.

So I?ll be out and about with my family this weekend and I reckon the overwhelming majority of you will be out and about too.

[Charles Martel]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Charles Martel Wrote:

> ---------------------------------------------

>

> >

> > Regardless of how you may feel East Dulwich is

> > obviously not safe....... Nowhere in London is

> > safe.

>

>

> Nowhere anywhere is "safe" then.

>

> If a tragic incident happens somewhere, that

> doesn't make the area "unsafe".

Dennis Anderson was brutally murdered in our high street for the most trivial of reasons. His killer is still at large, armed and dangerous. There is a murderer on the loose so why would anyone feel safe?

This crime fits the same pattern as many others where a random, seemingly trivial argument between strangers leads to an act of extraordinary violence. The reality is there are people who have created their own psychotic dystopia in which going around armed and prepared to kill is normal. There is absolutely nothing protecting the rest of us from these people.

[rendelharris]

Let's just have a dash of perspective: while every murder is tragic and one too many, you have far more likelihood of dying in an accident at work in the UK than being murdered. More people die whilst playing football each year than are murdered. The number of murders in London last year, which if one believed the press was the biggest bloodbath in our history, was lower than that for every single year between 1990 and 2008. Homicide rates per head in the UK were higher in 1900 than they are today. Furthermore, the vast majority of murder victims are killed by someone they know; the chances of being killed by a stranger, as seems to have been the case in this tragic event, are vanishingly small. I'm not saying don't be vigilant or that everything in the garden's lovely, but the garden isn't as full of snakes and boobytraps as this event seems to have made some people feel.

[hellosailor]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Let's just have a dash of perspective: while every

> murder is tragic and one too many, you have far

> more likelihood of dying in an accident at work in

> the UK than being murdered. More people die

> whilst playing football each year than are

> murdered. The number of murders in London last

> year, which if one believed the press was the

> biggest bloodbath in our history, was lower than

> that for every single year between 1990 and 2008.

> Homicide rates per head in the UK were higher in

> 1900 than they are today. Furthermore, the vast

> majority of murder victims are killed by someone

> they know; the chances of being killed by a

> stranger, as seems to have been the case in this

> tragic event, are vanishingly small. I'm not

> saying don't be vigilant or that everything in the

> garden's lovely, but the garden isn't as full of

> snakes and boobytraps as this event seems to have

> made some people feel.

More people do not die playing football each year than are murdered. Not sure if you mean globally or Uk but not true either way.

[JohnL]

Charles Martel Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Charles Martel Wrote:

> > ---------------------------------------------

> >

> > >

> > > Regardless of how you may feel East Dulwich

> is

> > > obviously not safe....... Nowhere in London

> is

> > > safe.

> >

> >

> > Nowhere anywhere is "safe" then.

> >

> > If a tragic incident happens somewhere, that

> > doesn't make the area "unsafe".

>

> Dennis Anderson was brutally murdered in our high

> street for the most trivial of reasons. His

> killer is still at large, armed and dangerous.

> There is a murderer on the loose so why would

> anyone feel safe?

>

> This crime fits the same pattern as many others

> where a random, seemingly trivial argument between

> strangers leads to an act of extraordinary

> violence. The reality is there are people who

> have created their own psychotic dystopia in which

> going around armed and prepared to kill is normal.

> There is absolutely nothing protecting the rest

> of us from these people.

At any one time there's probably a number of murderers on the street - if that gets to you it becomes difficult to live in society.

Edit: what I mean is I could not go out for fear a brick will fall from a tall building and hit me.

One of the worst crimes I remember was in Clydach, Swansea - and whether that perpetrator is caught now is still questioned.

[Sue]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> At any one time there's probably a number of

> murderers on the street - if that gets to you it

> becomes difficult to live in society.

>

> Edit: what I mean is I could not go out for fear

> a brick will fall from a tall building and hit

> me.

>

> One of the worst crimes I remember was in Clydach,

> Swansea - and whether that perpetrator is caught

> now is still questioned.

Yes exactly.

Serial killers Fred and Rosemary West weren't caught for a long time. They lived in a village in rural Herefordshire.

To say we should all be living in fear because we live in London is absolute bollocks.

This was an appalling tragedy, but sadly appalling tragedies are not confined to any one place, because human nature is the same everywhere.

If you want to go and live in a hut in the middle of nowhere so that you don't have to be around people who might murder you, then that's up to you, Charles Martel, but please don't use this forum to spread your fears to everybody else.

[JoeLeg]

Charles Martel Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Charles Martel Wrote:

> > ---------------------------------------------

> The reality is there are people who

> have created their own psychotic dystopia in which

> going around armed and prepared to kill is normal.

> There is absolutely nothing protecting the rest

> of us from these people.

That?s been true for millennia, and there?s never been anything to protect from such terrible, tragic, random acts of savagery that take an innocent life. What exactly is your point?

[Penguin68]

A lot more good stuff happens than bad, it's just we focus on the bad. This seems to be a highly unusual incident and on the face of it doesn't fit easily into any 'typical' scenario. To attempt to draw conclusions about the incident to make general points about locale etc. is, at best just too early, and at worst plainly wrong. We can agree it's a tragedy and appalling, but other than that speculation is simply wasted effort.

What we perhaps do need to do is to reassure others who have been impacted by this and become fearful that what has happened isn't any norm.

It is possible that the perpetrator does suffer from some long-term or temporary mental imbalance - and we do know that services to support those with mental health problems are sadly wanting everywhere; but at the moment even this is simply speculation - it's just difficult to think (or want to believe) that it's the action of a wholly sane person.

[Robert Poste's Child]

Please do stop with the mental health speculation!

[rendelharris]

hellosailor Wrote:

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> More people do not die playing football each year

> than are murdered. Not sure if you mean globally

> or Uk but not true either way.

Well, are you going to tell the British Medical Journal that or shall I? Odds of dying playing soccer 50,000:1, odds of being murdered 100,000:1. https://www.bmj.com/content/suppl/2003/09/25/327.7417.694.DC1

Sounds unlikely I know but anecdotally in my life I've personally known three people who've dropped dead during sports activities (1xsquash, 2xfootball) plus a boy in a school I taught in who died from a heart condition while playing football; I've never been acquainted with anyone who's been murdered.

[tomskip]

I'll admit to feeling less secure knowing that this man has not yet been arrested. Is there even a description? CCTV? It feels odd that there has been so little information shared about the suspect. Perhaps there are reasons for that, I know nothing about police procedures. I was at Finsbury Park tube station the night Jonathan Zito was killed and it was the most shocking thing you can imagine. Everyone knows random murderous attacks are very rare but that doesn't mean it isn't disconcerting when it happens on your doorstep.

[edcam]

This thread isn't helping anyone. It's just ghoulish speculation and this forum at its worst.

[tomskip]

edcam Wrote:

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> This thread isn't helping anyone. It's just

> ghoulish speculation and this forum at its worst.

I disagree. The thread might not be helping anyone, but do all threads on here have to "help"? At the very least it is a place where people can express their sorrow and condolences.

[Sue]

Robert Poste's Child Wrote:

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> Please do stop with the mental health speculation!

Why?

The reason why mental health is often still so stigmatised is because some people refuse to discuss it.

We have had this before, when somebody (you?) asked me not to suggest that somebody who attacked his barber with a hammer because he didn't like his haircut was probably not mentally well.

It seems to me quite reasonable to suggest that somebody who murders an apparent complete stranger because (apparently) he wouldn't or couldn't give him a cigarette might be mentally ill.

[Sue]

edcam Wrote:

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> This thread isn't helping anyone. It's just

> ghoulish speculation and this forum at its worst.

It's a terrible thing that has happened locally.

Yesterday I caught two buses, and at both the bus stops people I didn't know started talking to me and each other about it.

People need to talk about it. We are a local community. Aren't we?

How is this thread "this forum at its worst"?

[Robert Poste's Child]

Sue, you always do this. Speculating on the mental health of someone you don't know, about an event you didn't witness, where they did something that you don't agree with is not discussing mental health and doing that has the effect of increasing stigma around mental illness. Not everyone who commits a crime is mentally ill - the fact you make a kneejerk reaction linking the two says it all. That's why people teach their children about right and wrong. If you saw a child nick some sweets, would you ask if they were feeling poorly? Do think about the situation and the real lives involved.

[Loutwo]

A terrible indiscriminate random act of brutality, does not make any one area more or less dangerous than any other. But this isn?t the time nor place for that conversation.

I would say at this time, it is best to be at one with the victim?s family who are grieving, and not spend hours speculating about things none of us know about.

Louisa.

[edcam]

That's how I feel Louisa.

[Sue]

Robert Poste's Child Wrote:

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> Sue, you always do this.

To the best of my knowledge I have "done this", ie responded to your asking people not to mention mental illness on the forum, twice.

Of course not everyone who commits a crime is mentally ill. How you conclude that I have said that, I have no idea.

I am talking about specific behaviour in relation to a crime being committed.

As I said before, re the person who didn't like their haircut harrassing their barber and then attacking him with a hammer, do you think this is normal behaviour?

Or do you think that it is the behaviour of somebody "who wasn't taught about right and wrong" as a child, as you say?

To compare a child nicking some sweets with the behaviour of the person in the present thread (I am not going to detail it, although it is now in the public domain) is just risible. Sorry.

ETA: Oh, and just so we are clear, it wasn't me who raised the issue of the mental health of the attacker in the present case.

[DulwichFox]

There are a couple of people here that need to show some respect after what has happened in our area.

Somebody has lost their life.

STOP the bickering and point scoring.

DulwichFox

[DovertheRoad]

Agree Louisa. My deepest condolences to the family and everyone deeply affected by this senseless death.