London 2012: RMT Union rejects Tube pay offer

[KidKruger]

I don't think I'm particularly cynical in thinking some people, especially with access to a union, will milk this to death. So there will be a busy couple of weeks this summer, big deal.

Milk it while you can...

[Otta]

I tend to agree.

[Huguenot]

Where's Chippy?

[Alan Medic]

I don't understand why people should be paid more. If they are doing overtime they will be paid. As for working under more pressure, either you can do the job or you can't. What are tube staff expecting they will have to do that they wouldn't expect to be doing as part of their job anyway? I think they are looking for money 'for old rope' if I understand this expression correctly.

[peterstorm1985]

I think there may be a few unemployed who could suggest more appropriate ways of using the money - bonuses are something you give out when times are good

[maxxi]

Tfl will probably pay with a smile as they finalise their plans for fully automated driverless tube trains.

driverless trains - BBC

[Chippy Minton]

It's a bonus of a few hundred quid they're asking for when London Underground themselves state: "We are determined to properly acknowledge the contribution they will be making to a fantastic Olympics."

As for "bonuses are something you give out when times are good" I assume you completely missed the announcement by Goldman Sachs today that they paid out ?7.4 billion in pay and bonuses last year even though its profits halved.

[Marmora Man]

Chippy Minton Wrote:

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>

> As for "bonuses are something you give out when

> times are good" I assume you completely missed the

> announcement by Goldman Sachs today that they paid

> out ?7.4 billion in pay and bonuses last year even

> though its profits halved.

Yet the GS bonus will be paid by a private sector company and won't cost the taxpayer anything. In fact the tax on ?7bn will probably come in handy. The Tube driver demand is simply blackmail to be paid for by the tax payer / fare payer.

[Chippy Minton]

GS will pay less tax because they are paying more in bonuses so it will cost the taxpayer.

Taxpayers pay for bonuses all the time - teachers, in local authorities, the police, the NHS etc. I assume you object to all those as well? Or are you just anti-tube driver?

[woodrot]

Why dont we spend these bonuses wisely on infrastructure ? soemthing for the people

say, a grand Albert Speer inspired Romanesque plaza on Goose Green where all the ED reactianry Nazis can parade. Judging by this thread, it would be rather popular

[Otta]

Chippy, what do you care about the tube, you've got your car ;-)

[Loz]

Chippy Minton Wrote:

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> GS will pay less tax because they are paying more

> in bonuses so it will cost the taxpayer.

Income tax rate > corporation tax rate, so the taxpayer is better off if the bonus is paid.

[Huguenot]

It's just a ransom demand isn't it?

It's not like because the trains are heavier they have to pull harder.

They're just hardened criminals Chippy, and this is why nobody likes a union.

[Chippy Minton]

Loz - fair enough, although bonuses are paid for by the taxpayer - there are plenty of people in the public sector that get them. If you don't believe in anyone, public or private, being paid a bonus then fine, but I haven't got a problem with the concept of bonuses. I just don't see why they should be exclusive to the private sector or tube-drivers should be exempt.

Huguenot - ha, ha...no point going over old ground with regard to what you think it takes to be a tube driver, however it's a bonus, not a ransom, and not every one hates them (just the Tories, Lib Dems, Daily Mail, people like you, MM etc oh, and Ed Miliband ;-)).

Otta - get over it, car hater.

[Otta]

I'm not against a deserved bonus being paid, but I don't see why the tube staff should feel they will deserve it. During the Olympics, they will be very busy, as will police (my friend has been told he can't book any time off for 15 weeks this summer), the shop staff in Westfields, the bus drivers, the street cleaners, the hotel staff. The list goes on, what makes tube staff different?

[Huguenot]

Exactly - a bonus is paid for going over and above expectations in your performance.

If these guys are working harder, or longer or with extra care - then great, give them a bonus.

Crucially, the union makes no such claim - they simply say the drivers will be under 'more pressure'.

It's bollocks - it's a ransom demand. That union needs to be broken - or the drivers to be made key workers who can't strike.

[Chippy Minton]

Crucially you are wrong - the RMT states: "RMT today rejected a ?derisory? Olympics pay offer from London Underground and agreed to step up the pressure for a deal that properly rewards the additional work load and pressure that staff will need to carry throughout the Olympics period."

I think it's generally recognised that transport during the Olympics is a potential nightmare. It's definitely going to be more critical than queues in shops, extra litter or more bed sheets needing to be changed. The massive increase in passengers will mean demands on tube workers increase significantly - health and safety, security, logistics, scheduling etc. This has already been recognised for London Overground and Network Rail workers and the tube drivers.

The same goes for bus workers - Unite is currently negotiating with the bus operating companies for a similar deal.

As for the police, I agree. I think they should also be compensated.

As for making them key workers who can't strike...dream on...if doctors and nurses have the right to strike, there's no way drivers will lose this.

[Huguenot]

I'll be interested to learn what this extra workload is - it's frankly difficult to imagine these feckless extortionists doing anything above and beyond sitting on their fat arses doing as little as possible all day.

As for bonusing the police.... what a surprise, greedy unions demand yet more money from the taxpayer just to do the job they're already paid to do. Who's next? Don't forget Chippy - you're stealing money out of the pockets of the readers of this forum with this racket.

[KidKruger]

And people blame banking for dragging this country into the mud, talk about the cat calling the dog 'hairy arse'.

Infrastructure staff blackmail their employer just because they can and it's argued as 'proper rewards'.

I'd love a job where I could get those kind of rewards, ooh boss we may get busy soon so I'm not working unless you give me more money.

What's that line again ? Oh yeah, "England's Dreaming".

[Chippy Minton]

I understand you're trying to bait me Huguenot, but if you can't comprehend how an extra 3 million journeys on the tube a day during the Olympics might increase tube workers' workloads, I think I'll withdraw from the debate with you.

[Alan Medic]

Is this not about looking for extra money as there will be less tea/fag/toilet breaks during the course of a working day?

[maxxi]

The future...

http://www.siemens.com/innovation/pool/de/Publikationen/Zeitschriften_pof/pof_fruehjahr_2008/massgeschneiderte_loesungen/ubahn/pof108_mass_ubahn1.jpg

[Chippy Minton]

Hilarious as your picture is, the tube drivers aren't involved and have got nothing to do with this dispute - they've already got their bonus agreement in place.

And if you think driverless trains will end strikes on the underground you're wrong. The RMT will still represent those responsible for the maintainence, infrastructure, running etc of these trains and will still be able to "hold us to ransom" as this current dispute demonstrates ;-)

[Undisputedtruth]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> I don't understand why people should be paid more.

> If they are doing overtime they will be paid. As

> for working under more pressure, either you can do

> the job or you can't. What are tube staff

> expecting they will have to do that they wouldn't

> expect to be doing as part of their job anyway? I

> think they are looking for money 'for old rope' if

> I understand this expression correctly.

Obviously, you're pretty clueless about the dispute and just using "I don't know any better" logic. Best to stick playing 73's and 100's on the EDF.

London Overground and Network Rail staff are getting five to six times more Olympic bonuses than what is being offered to RMT members.

Just how far does a ?100 goes these days. Not even enough to buy Starbuck's coffee for every week of the year.

I suspect TfL is trying provoke RMT into strike action in view of the pending Mayor's election this May.

[Otta]

Charming as ever.

Could you not have just posted

London Overground and Network Rail staff are getting five to six times more Olympic bonuses than what is being offered to RMT members.

Just how far does a ?100 goes these days. Not even enough to buy Starbuck's coffee for every week of the year.

I suspect TfL is trying provoke RMT into strike action in view of the pending Mayor's election this May.

Without feeling the need to be rude to someone first?