Who started the regeneration of East Dulwich as a shopping centre?

[tiddles]

I moved here in 1996 as it was the only place we could afford (moving from tooting)AND bring the ??? of negative equity we had accumulated on our one bed flat with us!! I think it is simply the ripple effect as people were being priced out of tooting/balham and latterly clapham.

the shops have followed

[macroban]

The Cheese Block fascia says established in 1991.

[reggie]

We moved in 10 years ago and the blue mountain was the flagship that said " we are funky...come to east dulwich". The fact that the service was terrible didnt seem to affect anyone then...it was all there was.

[ooermrs]

God I remember Tiger Lily.............. I developed my life long love of joss sticks by going there as a moody teenager:))

Dont know who started the gentrification of LL, but I wish they would turn their attention to Rye Lane..........It used to be ok, but now its the elephant in the room.

Maybe they think that by "poshing up" Bellenden and Nunhead, Rye lane will get there by osmosis?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

There is a slow, creeping in from other roads going on near Rye Lane. New shop just opened in Choumert Road a stone's throw away. It's arty/furnitury/etcery sort of place. Fingers crossed this is just the beginning.

(sorry - off-thread I know)

[ooermrs]

Hi Peckhamgatecrasher, I do hope you are right.

( dont tell anyone, but just between you, me and the cat...............I live in Peckham too:))

[Alan Dale]

The answer to this question is clearly Sainsburys.

[david_carnell]

Would that be the one in Camberwell? ;-)

[Alan Dale]

Yes - although their post box is in SE22..

[*Bob*]

Interestingly (yawn) the PA announcer in Sainsbos used to say "Welcome to Sainsbury's Dulwich'". Now they say "Welcome to Sainsbury's East Dulwich"

[SimonM]

>>The answer to this question is clearly Sainsburys.<<

Part of me says there has to be more to it than that - given that a (relatively) flash new Sainsburys had previously opened in Peckham with zero gentrification effect.

And yet you're right of course. I remember the local campaign against the DKH Sainburys being waged by a few local Canutes (shades of the more recent anti-Caffe Nero shenanigans) - how it would steal a "valuable^ green space - the KCH Medical School Sports Ground - and kill off the cheap and cheerful budget shops then gracing LL. Words of praise were heaped on the Co-op supermarket - invaluable to pensioners on a budget apparently - but in my view a truly awful shop with half-empty shelves and low quality produce.

The pensioners I knew on low incomes also in fact looked forward to the new Sainsbury's, and there's no doubt there was some kind of sea change in people's shopping habits and expectations when it opened. I think the huge car park was more of a death knell to the parades of shops in Dulwich Village, oddly enough, than ED itself - although the Co-op was indeed an early casualty, as were a number of local butchers' and bread shops. So yes the arrival of the big chain store certainly changed the character of ED....ironic really.

Sainsburys financed the new park on Dog kennel Hill complete with dedicated fenced off area for dog "walkers" and KCH Medical School got the Sainsburys sports ground in Dulwich Village as a quid pro quo.

[Alan Dale]

How long until they say Sainsbury's Camberwell?

I suppose Sainsbury's Denmark Hill Village will precede that..

[Alan Dale]

SimonM Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> >>The answer to this question is clearly

> Sainsburys.

> Part of me says there has to be more to it than

> that - given that a (relatively) flash new

> Sainsburys had previously opened in Peckham with

> zero gentrification effect.

>

> And yet you're right of course. I remember the

> local campaign against the DKH Sainburys being

> waged by a few local Canutes (shades of the more

> recent anti-Caffe Nero shenanigans) - how it would

> steal a "valuable^ green space - the KCH Medical

> Sports Ground - and kill off the cheap and

> cheerful budget shops then gracing LL. Words of

> praise were heaped on the Co-op supermarket -

> invaluable to pensioners on a budget apparently -

> but in my view a truly awful shop with half-empty

> shelves and low quality produce.

>

> The pensioners I knew on low incomes also in fact

> looked forward to the new Sainsbury's, and there's

> no doubt there was some kind of sea change in

> people's shopping habits and expectations when it

> opened. I think the huge car park was more of a

> death knell to the parades of shops in Dulwich

> Village, oddly enough, than ED itself - although

> the Co-op was indeed and early casualty, as were a

> number of local butchers' and bread shops. So yes

> the arrival of the big chain store certainly

> changed the character of ED....ironic really.

>

> Sainsburys financed the new park on Dog kennel

> Hill complete with dedicated fenced off area for

> dog "walkers" and KCH Medical School got the

> Sainsburys sports ground in Dulwich Village as a

> quid pro quo.

So we agree Sainsbury's started it and now Foxtons have taken it up another notch...

[*Bob*]

Alan Dale Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> How long until they say Sainsbury's Camberwell?

>

> I suppose Sainsbury's Denmark Hill Village will

> precede that..

I expect they will cut straight to the chase and opt for Selbourne Village

[Alan Dale]

We've already got Safeway Selborne Village. Not sure there's room for another supermarket. We don't want to be overrun with chains you know..

[*Bob*]

Very wise - if you're not careful you'll end-up like us poor unfortunates down the hill

[jim_the_chin]

My sense is there was an 'ED 2.0' wave that started around the Palmerston regeneration and ended with foxtons/white stuff moving in.

I'd like a list of dates of places opening just to check my theory.

[Mark]

I did lots of shopping last year in the shopping centre of Angel last year because it's not too busy and it has Borders/Woolworths/HMV/The Angelic etc but I'll only Christmas shop in East Dulwich for stocking filler presents. Do people from outside the immediate area visit East Dulwich because it's a known as a shopping centre?

[macroban]

> My sense is there was an 'ED 2.0' wave that started around the Palmerston regeneration and ended with foxtons/white stuff moving in.

And ED 3.0 is?

[Alan Dale]

East London Line Extension to Denmark Hill Village.

Or is that 6.0?

[BJL]

SimonM Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> >>The answer to this question is clearly

> Sainsburys.

> Words of

> praise were heaped on the Co-op supermarket -

> invaluable to pensioners on a budget apparently -

> but in my view a truly awful shop with half-empty

> shelves and low quality produce.

>

> The pensioners I knew on low incomes also in fact

> looked forward to the new Sainsbury's, and there's

> no doubt there was some kind of sea change in

> people's shopping habits and expectations when it

> opened. I think the huge car park was more of a

> death knell to the parades of shops in Dulwich

> Village, oddly enough, than ED itself - although

> the Co-op was indeed an early casualty, as were a

> number of local butchers' and bread shops. So yes

> the arrival of the big chain store certainly

> changed the character of ED....ironic really.

I always felt that Somerfield killed the Co-Op. Didn't Somerfield suddenly start opening late and on Sundays and shortly after that, the Co-Op closed? I used to quite like going there...

[*Bob*]

Crimbo gift-buying in ED should only be as a last resort: if you've left it too late to get anything decent or well thought-out, ?40 should get you some pointless piece of shiny new tat, all ready to be shoved to the back of a cupboard and forgotten about.

[Keef]

Hmm, trying to work out when the co-op would have closed... Before the site was a Woolwich, it used to be a job centre for a while. Can anyone remember if it was anything else between Co-Op and Job Centre?

Guess the job centre must have opened about 93/94, but could be completely wrong...

[Frisco]

"Hmm, trying to work out when the co-op would have closed..."

From memory, the Co-op closed around 1988.

My own view on the regeneration of ED was that it only got of the ground from the mid-1990s onwards, and it wasn't a particularly gradual change. Previous advances, if they can be called that, stalled with the recession from 1988 onwards. I do recall that one significant factor in changing the perception of ED, and in highlighting its potential, was when the houses and flats at the ED end of Camberwell Grove (previously squatted) were marketed. I remember reading at the time that prospective purchasers then ventured into ED and were surprised by the unspoilt Victorian suburb they discovered, only 11 minutes from London Bridge.

Sainsburys may have played a role, but ED's economy in 1992 was pretty flat, just as with most other places, and it certainly wasn't on any list of desirable places to live at that time. However Sainsburys undoubtedly had an effect of the types of shops on LL, which seemed to allow openings for the craft/gift shops there now. I also agree that Blue Mountain (as it was) did play a role in starting up North Cross Road, and from that LL. Also, it's important to remember that the pubs only began to change within the last five or six years. I'm surprised no one had mentioned Springer's wine bar on ED Grove, as that was one of the first places of its kind in ED.

[Frisco]

"Can anyone remember if it was anything else between Co-Op and Job Centre?"

No, just job centre, I believe. The Co-op was divided into smaller units after it closed, and Winkworths eventually moved into one of them, when they came back to ED after leaving as a result of the late 80s/early 90s house price crash and recession.