CPZ: Proposed Controlled Parking 'West Peckham' (north East Dulwich?

[Huggers]

The problem in nutbrook street is bad parking. It is so frustrating to see cars take up one and a half spaces. I?ve seen people do it, Park selfishly and then go off. Two new schools haven?t helped, nor campervans parked up forever. But having endured CPZ in all my former homes where I paid but could never park anywhere near where I ived, I?d rather take my chances with no cpz.

[jimlad48]

Eileen Wrote:

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> This message is for people who live in Nutbrook

> Street - what do you think of the proposals for

> our street?

> I frequently can't find a place to park in the

> evenings long after a CPZ would have ended. Could

> this CPZ solve that?

>

> To anyone else - do you have any experience of

> CPZ's solving car parking scarcity after 6.30pm?

Our street had similar problems on the toastrack due to commuter parking. Once the CPZ came in, we found that the cars were gone in the day and there were no problems parking day or night.

[alex_b]

Eileen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This message is for people who live in Nutbrook

> Street - what do you think of the proposals for

> our street?

> I frequently can't find a place to park in the

> evenings long after a CPZ would have ended. Could

> this CPZ solve that?

>

> To anyone else - do you have any experience of

> CPZ's solving car parking scarcity after 6.30pm?

I wonder whether some of the problem on Nutbrook (other than bad parking) is the number of ?commercial? vehicles that seem to be left there for long periods of time. I would presume these would be moved on under a CPZ.

[Eileen]

alex_b Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Eileen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > This message is for people who live in Nutbrook

> > Street - what do you think of the proposals for

> > our street?

> > I frequently can't find a place to park in the

> > evenings long after a CPZ would have ended.

> Could

> > this CPZ solve that?

> >

> > To anyone else - do you have any experience of

> > CPZ's solving car parking scarcity after

> 6.30pm?

>

> I wonder whether some of the problem on Nutbrook

> (other than bad parking) is the number of

> ?commercial? vehicles that seem to be left there

> for long periods of time. I would presume these

> would be moved on under a CPZ.

Hi Alex - Thanks. I park almost every day in the evening and have this problem. Just got in (9pm) and got the last space in the street. I don't notice a lot of space that would be freed by commercial vehicles at this time. They almost all look like domestic cars. Also, though there are thoughtless or selfish parkers, I don't get the sense that better parking would free up more spaces beyond one or two at most. This is a street that is nose to tail parking almost all evening every day.

[ED_moots]

Proposals arrived in the post today. Looking at the proposed design I feel sure it will decrease residential parking and increase speed on my road Melbourne Grove. Southwark want 2m of double yellow lines around every dropped curb along with the new parking bays. We have a number of dropped curbs on MG but the hard standing at the front of the houses is not big enough for a normal car and so are rarely used. At 9pm this evening there are 4 cars parked between the dropped curbs. Those spaces would be lost to double yellows and they are likely residential given the time of day. Owners of the houses with dropped curbs often park across them, they would get a ticket. With the street effectively widened by double yellows speed will increase because passing is easier. This is right opposite the new charter school.

[alex_b]

We have occasional spaates of it on Adys, where I wind up parking on nearby streets or down by the park, but by and large it?s ok. Could it be that as the houses are slightly narrower there are more houses per metre of road? Or perhaps more houses split into flats? It is odd that Nutbrook is so much worse than other streets.

[trinidad]

this is a message for residents living on copleston rod - what do u think of these proposals for long road?

[kjet2]

A group of residents of Gowlett Road and Amott Road met last night at the Gowlett Arms. The consensus was that the introduction of a CPZ on these roads would have limited impact on the availability of parking spaces for residents as the most significant pressures affecting parking spaces are not during "working" hours but in the evenings, when the CPZ would not apply.

Yes, a couple of residents were concerned by commuters leaving their cars and then catching the train from Peckham Rye or East Dulwich, but there is very little evidence that this adversely affects availability of spaces to any great degree; again space is harder to find in the evenings.

Others mentioned the introduction of the double yellow lines alongside dropped curbs. These have effectively removed some 6-8 parking spaces along Gowlett Road alone. There is a clear recognition of the need to enhance the protection of pedestrians and other road users, but reducing available space with additional (paying) cycle hangars, so called parklets etc will only compound the problem, forcing residents of the street to park in adjoining streets. Add to this the proposed new paid parking area the entire length of one side of Gowlett Road from East Dulwich Road to Hinckley Road and one can only imagine the mess this will cause.

Linked to the last point, someone brought up about the issue of the so called "death of the high street"; the Council is proposing to charge business users some ?575+, where's the logic in that? Things are already tough enough without 1. the additional charges and 2. the potential reduction in trade from users put off by the parking charges. Many of us remember the short period when the Gowlett Arms was closed and the loss felt at the time, I fear a return to that period, but this time with a permanent loss.

Others in this thread have noted that clear line of sight facilitates speeding, which contradicts the Council's stated aim of this exercise as one to promote healthy and safer streets.

The issue clearly is if a few streets in the so called Peckham West area give into this, neighbouring streets will bear the brunt of relocated cars. Let's hope common sense prevails.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I wish the council put half the effort they have into pursuing CPZs over the years, into lobbying for better public transport.

It seems everything is being pinned on cycling, which, while an option for many, does not something that appeals to all. If it was a case of using a bike to make a short trip to the tube, that's one thing. But not everyone want to, or is capable of, cycling into the centre of town. Just making it easier to cycle to Brixton (our nearest tube) and safely leave a bike there (by replicating what they have done in terms of secure bike parking at Finsbury Park), would be a massive boon. Why, when the Santander bikes expanded in every direction, Did Southwark decide not to fund them coming to the SE? Why is there no Cycle superhighway in SE London?

If you look at almost any transport map of London (tube map, cycle superhighway map, hire bikes), SE appears as a blank space. The only exception is long distance, suburban rail lines, which are run according to the needs of those commuting in from outside the capital. The train services are not bad to be fair. But there should be other, more regular and convenient alternatives and the Council should be lobbying on our behalf.

[Earl Aelfheah]

All the activity on making car ownership mildly more inconvenient or expensive, whilst doing little to offer alternatives, feels a lot like displacement activity.

[alex_b]

Kjet2 - I completely agree with your points. The council are proposing the wrong answer to the wrong question. What the streets in "West Peckham" need is a reduction in rat running, especially by large commercial vehicles. Unfortunately our local councillors seem to have absolutely no interest in the views of local residents.

[Eileen]

kjet2 Wrote:

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> A group of residents of Gowlett Road and Amott

> Road met last night at the Gowlett Arms. The

> consensus was that the introduction of a CPZ on

> these roads would have limited impact on the

> availability of parking spaces for residents as

> the most significant pressures affecting parking

> spaces are not during "working" hours but in the

> evenings, when the CPZ would not apply.

>

Hi - thanks for this info. The CPZ side effects of difficulties for visitors' parking is compounded if the CPZ doesn't make it easier to park in the evenings. I live in Nutbrook just a street away from yours. It is in the evenings we have as many problems, sometimes more, as during the day. Have you any ideas why we have so many cars parking in the evenings around our part of the area?

[kjet2]

Hello Eileen,this is hardly scientific, but we had people last night who need their cars to commute to their places of work; generally outside London - this included teachers who would otherwise need to travel by public transport for up to 2.5 hours for a distance of 14 miles; thereby freeing space during the day. Otherwise, I would urge people thinking of supporting this measure (and we had people last night asking whether objections are simply related to a question of money(!) or those that wanted to just be able to park in front of their homes), to think of those who need to commute into the area as well; teachers at Bellenden or St Johns or the various children's nurseries in the area who would be impacted severely by the introduction of a CPZ. Yes, it's all too easy to say people should just travel by public transport and forego cars etc, and I realise that this statement may well stir a hornet's nest here, but we need to just get real here and put ourselves in others' shoes. Sometimes getting to work by car as opposed to using public transport is just what one has to do to be able to commute with a reasonable chance of balancing work/time/family and life.

[ech]

alex_b Wrote:

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> We have occasional spaates of it on Adys, where I

> wind up parking on nearby streets or down by the

> park, but by and large it?s ok. Could it be that

> as the houses are slightly narrower there are more

> houses per metre of road? Or perhaps more houses

> split into flats? It is odd that Nutbrook is so

> much worse than other streets.

We must be on opposite ends of the street!!

It's terrible down at the Oglander Road end. We have lived here for nearly 11years and it's got progressively worse - the first issue was the council making the end of Crystal Palace Road no right turn around 4 years ago forcing all the traffic and HGVs straight on down into the Adys Road area where the streets are too small to cope (note the constant knocking over of the bollards!) Then the introduction of the CPZ's at Lyndhurst Grove meant a further increase in commuters parking (i've followed lots of them to the station in the morning and we can park more easily at weekends before people say this isn't a cause) and of course more recently the Denmark Hill CPZ.

Apart from the challenge parking (i don't expect to park outside but reasonably nearby would be great) means there are no passing spaces for cars. This end of Adys Road the street isn't wide enough for 2 cars to pass so almost every night there are road rage incidents, damage to vehicles, car horns blaring at each other. It's horrific to live with. Seeing how pleasant it now is around the Lyndhurst Grove area and how easy it is to park since the CPZ was brought in i am now hugely in favour.

Being the only area left without one is crazy and it's obvious all the issues previously faced by other areas will now be displaced here if it doesn't go ahead!

[Earl Aelfheah]

chuck it over the fence.

[trinidad]

Copleston Road can be difficult sometimes to park, but I usually find somewhere to put the car. I often do see the commuters in the morning, park up and head to the station like bees. I am not in support of the introduction of a Controlled Parking Zone. I am sure the introduction of a zone would follow aggressive parking enforcement, deliveries not taking place, people not visting any more, and commuters simply parking further afield. My experiences simply does not warrent a CPZ, does anyone else feels this way? While I like the commitment of cleaner neighborhoods, I cant stop thinking, this has to be a way of generating income. Drivers already pay a premium in high insurance premiums (fueled by ecess personal claims), increasing petrol prices, Increase car duty, congestion zone, omissions zone in a few months, and now a charge to park not out side your home, not even on your road, but within the zone!!

Has anyone submitted their feedback to the council as yet?

[TTW]

We have just had the new CPZ implemented on Chadwick Rd (11-1pm only). During the heated CPZ consultation process, lots of people tried to claim that stories about commuters parking on the road to walk to Peckham Rye were a myth, despite clear evidence to the contrary. Since the new CPZ has come in, the number of cars parked on the street has reduced by 50% or more (probably pushed to your roads - sorry) and we can actually park near our house (helpful with two small children). There is also noticeably less traffic and noise on the street.

[alex_b]

ech Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> alex_b Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > We have occasional spaates of it on Adys, where

> I

> > wind up parking on nearby streets or down by

> the

> > park, but by and large it?s ok. Could it be

> that

> > as the houses are slightly narrower there are

> more

> > houses per metre of road? Or perhaps more

> houses

> > split into flats? It is odd that Nutbrook is so

> > much worse than other streets.

>

> We must be on opposite ends of the street!!

>

> It's terrible down at the Oglander Road end. We

> have lived here for nearly 11years and it's got

> progressively worse - the first issue was the

> council making the end of Crystal Palace Road no

> right turn around 4 years ago forcing all the

> traffic and HGVs straight on down into the Adys

> Road area where the streets are too small to cope

> (note the constant knocking over of the bollards!)

> Then the introduction of the CPZ's at Lyndhurst

> Grove meant a further increase in commuters

> parking (i've followed lots of them to the station

> in the morning and we can park more easily at

> weekends before people say this isn't a cause) and

> of course more recently the Denmark Hill CPZ.

>

> Apart from the challenge parking (i don't expect

> to park outside but reasonably nearby would be

> great) means there are no passing spaces for cars.

> This end of Adys Road the street isn't wide enough

> for 2 cars to pass so almost every night there are

> road rage incidents, damage to vehicles, car horns

> blaring at each other. It's horrific to live with.

> Seeing how pleasant it now is around the Lyndhurst

> Grove area and how easy it is to park since the

> CPZ was brought in i am now hugely in favour.

>

> Being the only area left without one is crazy and

> it's obvious all the issues previously faced by

> other areas will now be displaced here if it

> doesn't go ahead!

I'm in the middle of the road and while it's not empty, I can usually park either outside the house or on the other side of the road (except when everyone leaves 3/4s of a space between cars). I don't think any of my immediate neighbours own cars and only a couple of the houses/flats opposite do.

You are absolutely right about the HGV traffic, road rage and general traffic volume. That's what I really want the council to tackle, but I see the CPZ introduction making that worse (due to the double yellows allowing coaches/HGVs to turn from Nutbrook, increased speeds due to more space) not better.

[ech]

TTW Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We have just had the new CPZ implemented on

> Chadwick Rd (11-1pm only). During the heated CPZ

> consultation process, lots of people tried to

> claim that stories about commuters parking on the

> road to walk to Peckham Rye were a myth, despite

> clear evidence to the contrary. Since the new CPZ

> has come in, the number of cars parked on the

> street has reduced by 50% or more (probably pushed

> to your roads - sorry) and we can actually park

> near our house (helpful with two small children).

> There is also noticeably less traffic and noise on

> the street.

This is what I have seen in the Lyndhurst Road area and had as feedback from other friends who live in the CPZs which is why i am in favour and do feel it will address some of the broader issues in relation to traffic volume and road rage on Adys Road.

[alex_b]

ech Wrote:

> This is what I have seen in the Lyndhurst Road

> area and had as feedback from other friends who

> live in the CPZs which is why i am in favour and

> do feel it will address some of the broader issues

> in relation to traffic volume and road rage on

> Adys Road.

I'm not sure I follow the logic. My (unscientific) observation is that most traffic down Adys is through traffic (often commercial/goods); presumably as a cut through from Peckham High St (and North) down to the A205. I don't see why parking restrictions will reduce that traffic volume. I accept it may improve traffic flow and hence reduce road rage, but at the cost of increased speed.

[trinidad]

This is a reminder, that the consultation is 31st January. I have already completed my survey. Please make sure you complete yours:

There is a drop in session on Wednesday 23rd January between 4:00pm - 8:00pm (one session only) if your undecided, and want more information:

Come along to the drop in session at St John's Church, 62A East Dulwich Road

London SE22 9AT

This is an opportunity to ask questions specific to your street and to provide feedback on the design.

Please remember however to fill in the questionnaire online or via post to have your say.

If your a business, there is a Consultation meeting for business-owners/traders on Tuesday 22nd January 2019

2:00pm to 3:30pm (one session only)

Attend the meeting at Goose Green Community Centre, 62A East Dulwich Road London SE22 9AT.

The meeting will be chaired. The Southwark Council will briefly present the proposals before taking questions.

Please remember to fill in the questionnaire online or via post to have your say.You can also send advance questions ahead of time to, [email protected]

Everyone must express there view on these proposals, even if you do not own a vehicle.

https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/peckhamwestparking/consult_view/

[alex_b]

trinidad Wrote:

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> This is a reminder, that the consultation has now

> been extended until 7th February, due to late

> delivery of hard copies via the post.

Are you sure about this? I only saw the the East Dulwich and not the West Peckham consultation had been extended.

[Eileen]

trinidad Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is a reminder, that the consultation has now

> been extended until 7th February, due to late

> delivery of hard copies via the post. I have

> already completed my survey. Please make sure you

> complete yours:

>

The Council's website still says this consultation is closing on the original date of 31st January - https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/peckhamwestparking/

[trinidad]

Thanks for spoting this, I have changed this to the 31st Jan

[ech]

alex_b Wrote:

------------------------------------------------------

>

> I'm not sure I follow the logic. My (unscientific)

> observation is that most traffic down Adys is

> through traffic (often commercial/goods);

> presumably as a cut through from Peckham High St

> (and North) down to the A205. I don't see why

> parking restrictions will reduce that traffic

> volume. I accept it may improve traffic flow and

> hence reduce road rage, but at the cost of

> increased speed.

See comments from others about the CPZ reducing traffic and the roads generally being quieter after implementation. I agree it won't stop it being used as a cut through by commercial vehicles but it should stop the additional commuter traffic at the rush hours driving round looking for parking - even a reduction in this traffic will help. The road rage is unbearable so i'd vote for the CPZ just to reduce that.

As for speeding, the volume of traffic makes this unrealistic and at the bottom end we have 2 consecutive high and hard speed bumps (we get the noise and vibrations every time someone drives over them) to slow traffic right down as a result of someone going straight through the front of one of the houses on Oglander some years ago. Can;t see how people will be able to drive faster as a result of improved parking and more passing spaces given the volume of traffic and the anti speeding measures already in place.