CPZ: Proposed Controlled Parking in East Dulwich

[sally buying]

Siduhe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jakido Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Is it possible to limit the time period to

> > discourage commuters leaving vehicles e.g 9am

> to

> > 10am, but allowing people to still drive and

> park

> > at other times?

>

> At the risk of making it look like all I do is

> post about CPZs - the problem (it seems to me) is

> that Southwark do implement a 2 hour window only

> for the CPZ but then allow people to pay by

> telephone - so no bar to commuter parking if they

> are willing to pay for the 2 hour window. At

> least that has been the experience of some roads

> in the Denmark Hill CPZ. I've said elsewhere I

> think the time has come where a CPZ feels

> inevitable as everywhere else around us is

> controlled parking but if we have one, it needs to

> work for residents, allow people to visit our

> local shops and restaurants and not just be a

> revenue raising exercise or an ideological one in

> that Southwark think CPZs are the way to

> discourage car ownership in the borough.

>

> http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5

> ,1989466,1992981#msg-1992981

This is Southwarks view on CPZ'S

The council is actively supporting car clubs as an alternative to car ownership, every car club vehicle removes the need for our residents to own a car or own a second car. Zip Car and DriveNow have a contract with Southwark Council and they have purchased virtual permits for their vehicle fleet which allows them to park in any permitted parking bay in Southwark.

Kind regards

Joanna Redshaw

[rendelharris]

ed_pete Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> @RH, I guess my point is that those that wish to

> have a CPZ on Copleston Road are asking all car

> owners on that street to pay for a permit when

> there are adequate parking spaces at certain times

> of day.

> CPZ's are emotive subject and IMO I think that

> most people will have already made up their minds

> based on the impact on themselves. Most people

> will not be swayed by air quality arguments or

> care about the knock-on to the neighbouring

> non-CPZ areas or the affordability for other car

> owners.

> If you regularly experience problems parking near

> your own property, believe a CPZ will solve this

> issue and are happy to pay for the permit then I

> guess you'll be in favour. If, like my household,

> you don't use your car much during the week (in my

> case there are usually more spaces at the weekend)

> then I guess you won't.

There are adequate parking spaces for a few minutes around 8.30! Looking up and down the street now I can see a single parking space for a small car...

I don't drive and my wife goes to work by train, so her car frequently stays in the same spot from one weekend to the next, on the "I want a parking space" level we're not affected. However, I would like a CPZ now as the CPZs in surrounding areas have driven much commercial parking to our road - lots of builders' vans etc (it's become a habit now for some builders working within CPZs to drop off tools/materials in the morning, then go and park in one of the boundary roads - I know this from talking to them), commercial vehicles (someone who obviously sells/rents black cabs is using the street for storage, half a dozen last time I looked, none with TfL licence plates), and the aforementioned commuters. Frequently these vehicles are parked dangerously around junctions, making the area less safe for residents.

The commuters are especially irksome as many, especially in this cold weather, drive up and then sit with engines running while they make their 'phone calls, do their make up, sort out their paperwork etc prior to departing for the station. In December I came across one chap, suited and booted, sitting in his Merc with the engine running whilst enjoying a bowl of cereal! He seemed genuinely surprised that I should object to his diesel fumes filling the street whilst he tucked in...

So although I'd rather not have to pay for a CPZ (though as Reg sensibly points out above, ?2.50 a week is hardly extortionate), and I'm more than happy to walk a fair distance to the car on the rare occasions I ride in it, I feel that the surrounding CPZs have more or less forced us into having one if we want to maintain a quiet and healthy urban environment.

[tiddles]

Local businesses will be affected - people will often stop to shop en route

To somewhere else. I suspect alot of business is done by people popping into the card

Shop or chemist as part of a journey. If you are unable to stop you will push

On and conduct your business to somewhere you can park (supermarket/superstore

[Earl Aelfheah]

Why would people in Kent not drive to a local station and get a fast train into central London, as opposed to struggling through morning traffic for an hour or more, just to get on a bus or train from ED? It make no sense and in so far as this may happen, it cannot account for many vehicles.

I suspect that the vast majority of parked cars which appear during the day are people who work in the area - shop workers, doctors, school teachers etc.

[rendelharris]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why would people in Kent not drive to a local

> station and get a fast train into central London,

> as opposed to struggling through morning traffic

> for an hour or more, just to get on a bus or train

> from ED? It make no sense and in so far as this

> may happen, it cannot account for many vehicles.

> I suspect that the vast majority of parked cars

> which appear during the day are people who work in

> the area - shop workers, doctors, school teachers

> etc.

Annual season ticket ED-London ?770, Dartford-London ?2560. Personally, I'd pay the extra and take the train, but I guess others see it differently. Not just the costs, either, given the unreliability of some train services the security of knowing your car is just a few miles away if all the trains are cancelled must be a factor.

I can only say that in my experience of walking to/from the station at commuter times there are a significant number of people who park in the streets near the station and get the train from there.

[alex_b]

Also even if you live relatively locally (borders of Crystal Palace and Dulwich say) you might choose to drive vs taking the bus.

[1921]

I would be interested to see how the new (if it happens) CPZ would deal with intelligent commuters.

I know several people that park in Herne Hill and have an alarm set on their phones to pay for the two hour parking when it kicks in. I really don't want CPZ but if it really does get the go ahead then making it impossible to do this using old fashioned ticket machines (people could still pay by card) would seem the only feasible option.

[kford]

There will be no old=fashioned ticket machines. It'll be RinGo pay-by-app/phone. It'll also kill the lane.

[Mscrawthew]

So,they bring in a "cpz" but allow anyone without a ?125 permit to pay and park. There is only one winner here and its not the residents and business owners!

[bels123]

Scare tactics and interesting first posts dulwichresident01.

If a zone was to be implemented around Lordship Lane, it could end up being just a 2hr restriction like Herne Hill?s. Talking to a cafe owner there today she said it?s had no impact. Only 22% come to Lordship Lane by car, 90% of those are local so a big opportunity for many to switch to walking and potentially spend more ?s. Those that truly can?t could instead come outside of the restricted hours eg not 12-2pm or simply pay. Saw someone I know getting into her car on Lordship Lane recently, lives on Melbourne Grove and I?m sure there are many other locals who park up to get the shops quickly on the way back from a longer trip - it doesn?t mean they won?t continue to shop or go elsewhere, just that they plan ahead a bit more effectively to walk.

The price of the current ?convenience? is illegally polluted air. Lots of change is needed when you read reports like this https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/09/toxic-fumes-children-health-air-pollution-emissions?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other. Our local schools are having to put up green screens, air filtration systems in classrooms and run no-idling action days to try and mitigate against the toxic air.

[kford]

Herne Hill is Lambeth. Southwark's LL's 'could' be a full-day system. Your Melbourne Grove driver will still be able to pop to the Lane and park, BTW, as their permit will be for the whole area. As will everyone.

[bels123]

kford Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Herne Hill is Lambeth. Southwark's LL's 'could' be

> a full-day system. Your Melbourne Grove driver

> will still be able to pop to the Lane and park,

> BTW, as their permit will be for the whole area.

> As will everyone.

Fair points but that?s assuming the one area being consulted on in the ?East Dulwich parking study and healthier streets? consultation would all result in one same zone, not necessarily. Cllr James McAsh has previously stated it won?t necessarily be the whole zone implemented, but it?s all being consulted on and the roads where there is demand will be considered.

Herne Hill is both Lambeth and Southwark btw. Yes it could end up being full-day but only if that?s what the majority want.

[Galileo]

kford Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Herne Hill is Lambeth. Southwark's LL's 'could' be

> a full-day system. Your Melbourne Grove driver

> will still be able to pop to the Lane and park,

> BTW, as their permit will be for the whole area.

> As will everyone.

When I lived in Brixton we were CPZ (I was 4 minutes walk from the tube station and we never had parking problems like those in East Dulwich). The zones were a group of streets at a time so, for example, up Brixton Hill was a separate zone preventing them from driving down the hill to park closer to the station. It worked very well. There were pay and display bays for those visiting local businesses. I miss that CPZ!

[Ampersand]

New account. Three posts. Who is this ?our? you are referring to? Your concern for ?our lovely and unique high street? reeks of diesel.

dulwichresident01 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's recently come to our attention that the

> council are yet again proposing controlled parking

> on all the side streets off Lordship Lane.

>

> Whilst fewer cars would be welcome, I have grave

> concerns for our lovely and unique high street

> which makes East Dulwich what it is today. Surely

> this will massively disrupt the trade of all our

> lovely shops and in turn kill the high street?

> Imagine Lordship Lane without all it's

> indpendents...

>

> I for one love the Lane and would hate to see it

> affected in this way.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Ampersand Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Your concern for ?our lovely and

> unique high street? reeks of diesel.

Oh come off it. Do you really think a CPZ will lead to less pollution on the Lane? It's more about residents wanting to be able to park right outside their houses.

[Penguin68]

Actually the CPZ is about Southwark trying to drive cars out of Southwark, by reducing parking spaces and increasing the costs of car ownership. This is a stated aim. It ignores such issues as the hillyness of the south of the borough, making cycling and walking less attractive even for the young and able bodied, it ignores the lack of alternative public transport in the south of the borough, it ignores the actual reduction of bus services by TfL locally - i.e. by reducing frequencies and proposing route changes. The CPZ is 'sold' to locals as improving their chances of parking, but this is only true in some circumstances and is certainly not the intent of the apparat proposing change, who care nothing for 'entitled' who can afford their own transport.

[kford]

Correct, which CPZs, having lived in two of 'em, won't solve. In fact, they made it worse, and one had to pay for the privilege.

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ampersand Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Your concern for ?our lovely and

> > unique high street? reeks of diesel.

>

> Oh come off it. Do you really think a CPZ will

> lead to less pollution on the Lane? It's more

> about residents wanting to be able to park right

> outside their houses.

[spider69]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Actually the CPZ is about Southwark trying to

> drive cars out of Southwark, by reducing parking

> spaces and increasing the costs of car ownership.

> This is a stated aim. It ignores such issues as

> the hillyness of the south of the borough, making

> cycling and walking less attractive even for the

> young and able bodied, it ignores the lack of

> alternative public transport in the south of the

> borough, it ignores the actual reduction of bus

> services by TfL locally - i.e. by reducing

> frequencies and proposing route changes. The CPZ

> is 'sold' to locals as improving their chances of

> parking, but this is only true in some

> circumstances and is certainly not the intent of

> the apparat proposing change, who care nothing for

> 'entitled' who can afford their own transport.

Southwarks long term plan

This is Southwarks view on CPZ'S

The council is actively supporting car clubs as an alternative to car ownership, every car club vehicle removes the need for our residents to own a car or own a second car. Zip Car and DriveNow have a contract with Southwark Council and they have purchased virtual permits for their vehicle fleet which allows them to park in any permitted parking bay in Southwark.

Kind regards

Joanna Redshaw

[rendelharris]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Actually the CPZ is about Southwark trying to

> drive cars out of Southwark, by reducing parking

> spaces and increasing the costs of car ownership.

> This is a stated aim.

You've said this before Penguin, and as before I'll ask you: where have the council stated that their aim is to drive cars out of Southwark?

[Ampersand]

That's not what I meant and I don't think it will - it is more that this professed concern for a thriving high street is BS. Same as the 'concern' for people on lower incomes or those with mobility issues. As you say, its all about people wanting to park right outside their houses.

>

> Oh come off it. Do you really think a CPZ will

> lead to less pollution on the Lane? It's more

> about residents wanting to be able to park right

> outside their houses.

[Abe_froeman]

A CPZ will stop people driving to roads near the station. There's been a domino effect of CPZ's being introduced in the last few years in waves Herne Hill, North Dulwich, Denmark Hill, south Peckham all shifting commuters into the next area without a CPZ.

East Dulwich is the odd one out for the moment...

[janepinkcat]

I don't think it unreasonable to want to park outside my house, it would however be a miracle, but I do think it's unreasonable to constantly have to park two streets away. Loading and unloading baby and shopping is tricky at the best of times without having to go several streets.. bring on the CPZ

[kford]

A CPZ won't give you this privilege.

janepinkcat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't think it unreasonable to want to park

> outside my house, it would however be a miracle,

> but I do think it's unreasonable to constantly

> have to park two streets away. Loading and

> unloading baby and shopping is tricky at the best

> of times without having to go several streets..

> bring on the CPZ

[tash b]

janepinkcat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't think it unreasonable to want to park

> outside my house, it would however be a miracle,

> but I do think it's unreasonable to constantly

> have to park two streets away. Loading and

> unloading baby and shopping is tricky at the best

> of times without having to go several streets..

> bring on the CPZ

Couldn?t agree with you more would be nice to be able to park on my road not streets away, people park there cars on the road I live on that live on the two surrounding streets for a week at a time they leave them here so if it stops them from parking here then I would be able to.

[Earl Aelfheah]

A CPZ will not magically free up the space in front of your house. It won't address the fact that there are more residents with cars than there are spaces. You'll simply be paying to park a street away. Whilst it may not be unreasonable to want to park in front of your house, it may be unrealistic.

What might start to make a difference is improved public transport, cycling provision and some 'last mile' options.