SE22 Royal Mail Postal Survey

[pecksniff]

The Survey from the local Councillors / MP is now out regarding the ongoing issues of Royal Mail deliveries in the area. Unfortunately it doesn't state a deadline for responses.

[Penguin68]

Do you have a link?

[pecksniff]

It's a postal survey , lol. I've just received one.

[Penguin68]

And we've had no deliveries today; perhaps not the best vehicle then for determining if the post is working. No survey deliverey, no problems reported!

[seenbeen]

Had a postal delivery but no survey...is it random?

[pecksniff]

This was delivered separately from my post. It's headed Goose Green Labour Action Team.

[Abe_froeman]

"It's a postal survey , lol."

Heh! Is that really true?!

[Penguin68]

This was delivered separately from my post. It's headed Goose Green Labour Action Team.

So - hand delivered and only within one ward, despite all wards now being firmly Labour. That's joined up of the Party then. Of course, the former ED Lib Dem councillor always assumed he spoke for all of SE22 and all of East Dulwich (geographical grouping, not electoral ward)- but Goose Green (new ward) is even less representative either of SE22 or of those served by the old DO at Silvester Road.

Let's hope when they analyse the results they don't purport them to be representative of SE22 or anything other than their ward (if that).

Edited to add - of course The Party tends to use these surveys as recruitment vehicles for membership etc. so those not wishing to play that game may choose not to complete the survey, hence making it even less representative of SE22 feeling about Royal Mail services.

[singalto]

I have had post once since NYE and have not had the survey... 🤬🤬🤬

[Sue]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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The Party tends to use

> these surveys as recruitment vehicles for

> membership etc. so those not wishing to play that

> game may choose not to complete the survey

How do they use the surveys as "recruitment vehicles for membership etc"?

The local Labour party have been very involved in the mail problems right from the outset, including demonstrating in Sylvester Road at a time when the decision to close it might still have been influenced.

Our MP Helen Hayes was there. Hardly any local residents were, despite it being advertised on here.

Helen has also attended all the local meetings about it, both before and after the move to the Peckham office.

She has also been extremely proactive in raising this issue directly with Royal Mail, including at CEO level.

Are you really suggesting that people shouldn't fill in this survey because it is being sent out by Labour?

That's rather shooting themselves in the foot if they want an improved postal service locally, don't you think?

[Bic Basher]

We had a postal survey in Dulwich Wood Ward before Christmas from the Labour team.

[Houseoflego]

Penguin68 I was just reading the charter school thread and Can?t help noticing how many of your posts are anti the ex Lib Dem Councillor. Why bother?

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This was delivered separately from my post. It's

> headed Goose Green Labour Action Team.

>

> So - hand delivered and only within one ward,

> despite all wards now being firmly Labour. That's

> joined up of the Party then. Of course, the former

> ED Lib Dem councillor always assumed he spoke for

> all of SE22 and all of East Dulwich (geographical

> grouping, not electoral ward)- but Goose Green

> (new ward) is even less representative either of

> SE22 or of those served by the old DO at Silvester

> Road.

>

> Let's hope when they analyse the results they

> don't purport them to be representative of SE22 or

> anything other than their ward (if that).

>

> Edited to add - of course The Party tends to use

> these surveys as recruitment vehicles for

> membership etc. so those not wishing to play that

> game may choose not to complete the survey, hence

> making it even less representative of SE22 feeling

> about Royal Mail services.

[Penguin68]

How do they use the surveys as "recruitment vehicles for membership etc"?

The local Labour party have been very involved in the mail problems right from the outset, including demonstrating in Sylvester Road at a time when the decision to close it might still have been influenced.

Our MP Helen Hayes was there. Hardly any local residents were, despite it being advertised on here.

Helen has also attended all the local meetings about it, both before and after the move to the Peckham office.

I absolutely agree that Helen Hayes has worked tirelessly on this, as have many local labour people. My experience of Labour ward 'research' is that the questions are poorly designed, with no attempt to acquire metadata to support any analysis, and inevitably with requests for contact information, which will be used in campaigning and to attract support. Because of this some residents chose not to complete and return such surveys. I have no problems with local parties doing this, merely with them doing this 'under the guise of research'. If this survey, which I have not seen as I'm not part of that ward is any different, then I apologise. ['Real' market and social research is required generally NOT to disclose the names of individual respondents to the research commissioners]

But I will note that if it's titled as this thread is ('SE22 Royal Mail Postal Survey') then it is not being issued to constituents in the wards that cover that postal District (SE22) but only in one of them, and I would hope would not publish any results which purported to represent SE22 residents as a whole.

[Sue]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> How do they use the surveys as "recruitment

> vehicles for membership etc"?

>

> The local Labour party have been very involved in

> the mail problems right from the outset, including

> demonstrating in Sylvester Road at a time when the

> decision to close it might still have been

> influenced.

>

> Our MP Helen Hayes was there. Hardly any local

> residents were, despite it being advertised on

> here.

>

> Helen has also attended all the local meetings

> about it, both before and after the move to the

> Peckham office.

>

> I absolutely agree that Helen Hayes has worked

> tirelessly on this, as have many local labour

> people. My experience of Labour ward 'research' is

> that the questions are poorly designed, with no

> attempt to acquire metadata to support any

> analysis, and inevitably with requests for contact

> information, which will be used in campaigning and

> to attract support. Because of this some residents

> chose not to complete and return such surveys. I

> have no problems with local parties doing this,

> merely with them doing this 'under the guise of

> research'. If this survey, which I have not seen

> as I'm not part of that ward is any different,

> then I apologise. ['Real' market and social

> research is required generally NOT to disclose the

> names of individual respondents to the research

> commissioners]

>

> But I will note that if it's titled as this thread

> is ('SE22 Royal Mail Postal Survey') then it is

> not being issued to constituents in the wards that

> cover that postal District (SE22) but only in one

> of them, and I would hope would not publish any

> results which purported to represent SE22

> residents as a whole.

You are making a few assumptions here, aren't you?

You haven't seen the survey, but assume that the questions will be "poorly designed."

If previous surveys have been "poorly designed", perhaps they can't afford to employ somebody to put together a "well designed" survey? Not everybody has the necessary expertise. But you haven't even seen the questions on this one!

You say that they are trying to "attract support" "under the guise of research."

The local Labour party is very proactive in trying to attract support. I know, I am a member of it and sometimes deliver their leaflets locally (nothing to do with any survey).

Why would they go to the trouble of putting together a survey on a particular pressing local issue purely in order to "attract support" ? Why do you say it's "under the guise of research"? They are already taking many steps to attract local support, including quite recently having stalls on Saturdays in Lordship Lane.

You "hope" that they will not publish any results which purport to "represent SE22 residents as a whole".

But you have no grounds at all to think that they will, have you? If the survey is only in one ward, which at present I don't know (and BTW I live in that ward but have not yet received a survey), so what? Are you suggesting that the postal problems in SE22 may be bad in one ward but non-existent everywhere else? Are you suggesting that if they aren't able to cover the whole of SE22 then they shouldn't do the survey at all?

Quite why you are trying to put people off filling in a survey the results of which could well help improve our local postal delivery service is rather hard to understand.

What is your agenda, exactly?

[Penguin68]

As a former member of the Market Research Society, and someone involved in market and social research and research techniques over a number of years, and someone who has campaigned and worked against 'sugging' (selling under the guise of research) my agenda is to ensure that when 'research' is undertaken it is undertaken properly.

Were political parties to commission proper ward research, and additionally - and on a separate sheet where this is a 'postal' survey ask for political support and commitment I would be entirely happy - these are two exercises properly separated.

I am entirely unhappy for research findings to be misrepresented. Any findings this ward publishes will be 'true' only for that ward. Experiences in other wards may be worse, better or simply different. I am also unhappy that, where SE22 is represented only by labour held wards these could not have come together to undertake joint research to support Helen Hayes' case across the postal district. It makes me think that this is less about gathering data for intelligent use in supporting a unified and informed case 'against' Royal Mail and more about publicising and recruitment within one ward. Nothing against that, of course, except where it pretends to be about research.

I have made it clear that, not being a ward member, I have not seen this 'survey' - I am simply going on my past experience of ward surveys (and not just those conducted by the labour party).

And a poorly conducted survey (in terms of 'proper and professional' market research - if it is typical of its type) in only part of the affected area is not going to 'improve our local postal delivery service'. To make a case backed by survey research the sampling must be robust, the questionnaires must be well designed, and the metadata sufficient for a sample result to be extrapolated to a whole population. Ideally it should be independently conducted and analysed.

My 'agenda' is about professional conduct of research. Nothing more.

[nxjen]

I don?t see why a survey is of any benefit at this stage. Helen has been extremely proactive in trying to resolve the situation and I hate to say it but it sounds as if the councillors are trading on her hard work and to put across the message ?they care?. But the LibDems were just as bad, see the previous thread on here with James Barber launching his survey to find out local attitudes regarding a CPZ. BTW - did he ever share the results of that survey?

[Sue]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

To make a case backed by survey

> research the sampling must be robust, the

> questionnaires must be well designed, and the

> metadata sufficient for a sample result to be

> extrapolated to a whole population. Ideally it

> should be independently conducted and analysed.

>

> My 'agenda' is about professional conduct of

> research. Nothing more.

And the money to ensure all that that will come from where?

At present, the "evidence" that there are problems with local postal deliveries is (to the best of my knowledge) from people posting on this forum, plus individual complaints which may have been made to Royal Mail, either locally or centrally. Which may or may not have been logged.

Most people who have had issues will probably not have bothered to complain, unless they are aware of something vital which has gone missing completely or they have had to queue for hours in Peckham.

A survey will at least indicate whether more people than have actually already complained have had/are having problems with their post.

We presently have a Royal Mail manager who is publicly stating that he is not aware of any ongoing issues with deliveries in this area!

[Sue]

I have now seen this survey. In fact I have a bag of them to deliver. So:

1. They are being delivered by hand, by volunteers like me. They are not being posted.

2. Because of the holiday period, some are delayed.

3. There isn't a closing date as such, however the survey says on it "Please post back today" so I imagine at some point there will be a cut-off to enable the results to be analysed.

4. Given the voluntary delivery, it is quite possible that some people may not receive the survey, depending on the number of volunteers and the time they have available. For example I am doing just three streets.

5. There is a covering letter from Helen Hayes (our local and very proactive MP) which focuses on the situation re postal deliveries in East Dulwich, outlines the background and states what steps have been taken so far to address it and try to improve things.

It includes at the end the sentence "Labour is committed to returning Royal Mail to public ownership as a public service focused on delivering for residents and businesses, rather than the poorly performing asset stripping company it has become since privatisation."

If you think that means "the Labour Party are trying to gain support" by sending out this survey, then so be it. It seems to me like a statement of fact which is very relevant to the local postal situation.

6. The survey is very short and easy to fill in. It consists of four questions which require a "Yes/No" answer. So no problems of analysis there.

There is a supplementary part to Question 4. The fifth question asks for any other comments.

So, Penguin68, yes there is a qualitative aspect to part of it. But if there wasn't, a lot of relevant information would be lost. With your great expertise in research methods, I'm sure you understand that. It is common to many surveys and other research, both commercial and academic, in my experience.

7. No it won't be a completely representative survey of the whole East Dulwich community. Some people won't receive the survey, due to the voluntary nature of its delivery (see above). Some people who have had problems will receive it but won't send it back. Some people will not bother to return it because they haven't knowingly encountered any problems with their postal deliveries, so (a bit like online reviews) the results will be skewed towards the problems.

But despite all that, it WILL give an indication of how widespread the problems arising from the move from Sylvester Road to Peckham are, and the nature of them.

8. It does ask for personal details including the address, however given the nature of the questions it would be a bit stupid not to include that, wouldn't it, if the results are going to be communicated to Royal Mail in the hope of improving the delivery situation?

9. Overall, this could (and hopefully will) help improve the dire current situation with postal deliveries in SE22, so if you receive a survey, spare a thought for people like me trudging down streets to deliver them, and please fill it in and return it.

It's Freepost, so you won't need to pay anything, and the delivery address is in SE24, so hopefully it will arrive safely :))

ETA: The survey is the same for every ward, but will be headed differently depending on the ward.

So for example the one I am delivering is headed Goose Green.

This does not mean that the survey is only going to Goose Green ward.

[Penguin68]

8. It does ask for personal details including the address, however given the nature of the questions it would be a bit stupid not to include that, wouldn't it, if the results are going to be communicated to Royal Mail in the hope of improving the delivery situation?

No, this is simply not true. The method of questionnaire distribution in and of itself guarantees that respondents will be drawn only from the area impacted by the closure of Silvester Road - that obviates the need for any further identification in presenting results to anyone! Hand delivery to relevant streets is actually a good idea. Further, you need to be aware that this data collection falls straight under the GDPR regulations. The questionnaire must identify what uses this personal data will be put to, what safeguards in protecting it there are, who to contact to check, add or remove information - the fact that the data is not (at the moment) held on computer is irrelevant to GDPR.

You should also note that if areas are left out it would be entirely possible for Royal Mail to claim that the survey is intentionally partial. That is why I have said that surveys need to be undertaken professionally if they are to carry any weight in negotiation.

I am against neither surveys undertaken by political parties nor, and especially, the work undertaken by Helen Hayes in this particular instance. I am against wasted efforts, failure to understand the implications of data protection (if there have been any) and unprofessional attitudes to survey data collection.

Oh, and there may be residents who do not endorse the re-nationalisation of the Royal Mail who nonetheless do wish them to address the pigs-ear they have made of this DO closure. But who may not wish to add their names to a piece of labour policy with which they don't agree. Helen Hayes represents all electors in her constituency, not just the labour ones. [The amazingly poor management shown by Royal Mail in dealing with the DO closure is a function of terrible management at a local level, not the fact that it is now no longer a nationalised industry, even if you could argue that the driver for the closure (I'm not sure it was) is solely naked capitalism.]

[Sue]

"Add their names to a piece of labour policy with which they don't agree"?

How are they doing that, exactly?

FFS.

I'm going out now, but from the rest of your post it seems that (yet again) you are making assumptions, as you have done in previous posts.

[Penguin68]

"Add their names to a piece of labour policy with which they don't agree"?

How are they doing that, exactly?

Apologies - I had assumed in first reading of your post that the words "Labour is committed to returning Royal Mail to public ownership as a public service focused on delivering for residents and businesses, rather than the poorly performing asset stripping company it has become since privatisation." was included in the survey text that they would be completing, and not just Helen Hayes' covering letter. I assume the labour policy and the survey are entirely separate, and that the survey form to be returned does not include these words?

[Sue]

Yes

ETA: To avoid confusion; The letter and the survey are completely separate.

And the survey does not include those words.

Insert rolling eyes emoji here :)

[uncleglen]

Talking of asset-stripping

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/eu-drives-post-office-privatisation/

[dimples]

Hi there sue ,

Could you possibly upload this letter on here so we could down load it and fill it in so we all can receive this survey ?

[Sue]

dimples Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi there sue ,

> Could you possibly upload this letter on here so

> we could down load it and fill it in so we all

> can receive this survey ?

That's a good idea, but it won't be today.

I would have to scan three sides, reduce the files to forum accepted sizes andd then upload them.

So then that would be jpegs which I don't know if you could print out to A4 size. Not everyone will have a printer.

It will also mean the preaddressed side with the Freeport address is on a separate jpeg.

I will also have to check with the people who sent it out that they are OK with me doing that.

Also obviously not everyone in SE22 reads the forum, so physical copies would still have to be delivered.

I am running a singaround at The Ivy House tonight so going out shortly. Will try to look at it tomorrow.