Dobson and Norris found guilty - 'bout time

[trizza]

The Lawrence case is appalling but many such crimes (e.g. the bulger murder) lead to calls for tougher "one off" sentences that go against established rules. However, the law does not (and should not work) like that. I for one would not want to live in a country where "special exceptions" are made because it's the thin end of the wedge.

They committed the crimes as minors and should be sentenced as such - it's as simple as that. Yes, they had the opportunity to admit their guilt much earlier and, had they done so, they would have received reduced sentences accordingly. There will therefore be a consequence to their actions in not admitting their guilt earlier.

[Otta]

Whilst the Bulger murder was beyond grim, I don't think it's comparable to this.

I agree that the law cannot and should not bow to public outcry, but I just feel that these men deserve longer sentences because they've avoided justice for all these years.

@taper, yes, apparently these days, a race murder would carry q 30 year minimum, but this is also a new law.

[RosieH]

Why Otta?

I agree they're despicable c*nts, but there are many despicable murdering c*nts who avoid prosecution for many years and don't subsequently incur greater sentences as a result.

I'm with trizza on this. Their crime was disgusting, and I think we'd all like to see them put away for a long time, but ultimately it's no more disgusting than many another murder and I don't think deserves to be treated as a special case (in the same way that I don't think the Bulger case did).

[MrCheeky]

outrageous. there will be an appeal and they will be set free.sentanced to keep the peace .miscarriage of justice before our very eyes

[El Pibe]

"sentanced to keep the peace"

That's a little unclear, can you clarify?

[MrCheeky]

.

[MrCheeky]

they have been made scape goats to keep the peace . all the intrest in this trial these guys didnt have a leg to stand on . there would of been riots in the streets if they were found not guilty . i hope that clarifys it for you and others

[Parkdrive]

MrCheeky Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> they have been made scape goats to keep the peace

> . all the intrest in this trial these guys didnt

> have a leg to stand on . there would of been riots

> in the streets if they were found not guilty . i

> hope that clarifys it for you and others

Are you for real?

[MrCheeky]

oh you bet im for real quote The "close relationship" between parts of Scotland Yard and the media has caused "serious harm", a report says.

The report by Dame Elizabeth Filkin says information had previously been given "inappropriately".

This had "compromised" the way police and the media scrutinised each other's activities, it added.

[Annette Curtain]

I just wonder what kind of life these two & the others have actually led since they murdered of Steven Lawrence.

By that I mean, even though the've been "at liberty" in society, I can't help but imagine their existence was less than "free".

They must have been social pariahs in and around everywhere they went.

I like to think they've been a prisoner of their own conscience. Having lied so comprehensively throughout, they've had to live the "truth" of that lie ever since.

I do hope that out of this, Steven Lawrence's parents can see in some way that part of justice has been done. There are people behind the scenes that have worked tirelessly to bring this case back to court. I think they deserve a quite thought here.

There can never be a total closure when someone so dear to you is brutally murdered. However, knowing that others care enough to push hard for a conviction or even a conclusion, which dignifies the victim, does in some part give you the chance to move on with your own life again.

NETTE

[Parkdrive]

MrCheeky Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> oh you bet im for real quote The "close

> relationship" between parts of Scotland Yard and

> the media has caused "serious harm", a report

> says.

>

> The report by Dame Elizabeth Filkin says

> information had previously been given

> "inappropriately".

>

> This had "compromised" the way police and the

> media scrutinised each other's activities, it

> added.

Let me get this straight, do you believe that the defendants are innocent and that they've been "set up" by the press and police. I trust your view isn't tainted by the experience described in another thread on this forum?

[MrCheeky]

yes i belive they are innocent and so do many other people.

[MrCheeky]

and as for my other post in a diffrent part of the forum yes id take the law into my own hands if i find the scum that did it .

[KidKruger]

Well the mother of one of the murderers believes he's innocent !!

[KidKruger]

They've got 14 years and 15 years I just heard.

[pk]

MrCheeky Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> yes i belive they are innocent and so do many

> other people.

but not twelve of their peers who actually heard all the evidence and the arguments presented by both sides and taking it all into account thought that they were both guilty beyond reasonable doubt

[HAL9000]

Interesting point. According to the BBC, in respect of the evidence against David Norris,

But the forensic scientists found two small hairs in the evidence bag that had held the jeans.

One hair was 1mm in length and the second was 2mm in length. The longer hair was tested for a mitochondrial DNA match with Stephen. MtDNA is only passed down through the maternal line. It does not provide a full profile of an individual, but is a very powerful scientific tool, often used to investigate family ties.

A geneticist examined MtDNA databases and told the court the chance of it not coming from Stephen was one in 1,000. The cold case team that found the evidence say that the hair was "close to the limit" of what could be examined for DNA.

R. v. Watters, Court of Appeal (Criminal Division), October 19, 2000, established the precident that a probability of 1 in 267 could not be considered 'beyond reasonable doubt' and should not have been left to a jury to decide.

If the Judge failed to direct the jury adequately on this point (I've seen no reports that he did but I've not read the summing up) then it would serve as strong grounds for Appeal.

ETA: R. v. Watters suggested that even odds as high as 1 in 29,000 could be unsafe.

[Parkdrive]

pk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> MrCheeky Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > yes i belive they are innocent and so do many

> > other people.

>

>

> but not twelve of their peers who actually heard

> all the evidence and the arguments presented by

> both sides and taking it all into account thought

> that they were both guilty beyond reasonable doubt

And there is where I rest my case, which is what the brief for the prosecution probably said at the end of his closing speech.

[Otta]

MrCheeky Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> yes i belive they are innocent and so do many

> other people.

1. Why do you believe they are innocent?

2. Who are the many other people?

3. Do you also believe the other suspects in the case are all innocent?

4. Are you just winding us up for a laugh?

[Otta]

RosieH Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why Otta?

>

> I agree they're despicable c*nts, but there are

> many despicable murdering c*nts who avoid

> prosecution for many years and don't subsequently

> incur greater sentences as a result.

>

> I'm with trizza on this. Their crime was

> disgusting, and I think we'd all like to see them

> put away for a long time, but ultimately it's no

> more disgusting than many another murder and I

> don't think deserves to be treated as a special

> case (in the same way that I don't think the

> Bulger case did).

Just to be very clear on this, I don't think any cold bloodied murder is any better or worse than another.

I do however think that if a person evades justice for a number of years, then the law should take this in to account when it comes to sentencing.

Maybe that is a discussion that will come out of this...

NETTE could be right that their lives since the murder must have been pretty "different" but who knows, maybe they're proud of it.

[Annette Curtain]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> MrCheeky Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > yes i belive they are innocent and so do many

> > other people.

>

>

> 1. Why do you believe they are innocent?

> 2. Who are the many other people?

> 3. Do you also believe the other suspects in the

> case are all innocent?

>

>

> 4. Are you just winding us up for a laugh?

------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr C isn't very happy I think, as this morning

He further offers the following.

So all in all, he is probably a bit pissed off & given his other comments on here, i'd cut him some slack.

It doesn't stop him being a knob, but then aren't we all sometimes.

NETTE

[DJKillaQueen]

They've never shown any remorse and seem to be not very nice people either so I think they probably thought they got away with it and lived their lives as such.

If they genuinely are innocent then that's what the appeals procedure is for. None of us were in the court sitting through all the testimony and evidence. We only get snippets through the media so can't make anything like a considered view on the jury's verdict.

People do provide false alibis and lie under oath. Some parents will lie to cover up for their children. Clearly this is what the jury felt was the case here.

[donohoe]

I agree with Mr Cheeky they didnt stand a chance

[Otta]

So you believe they're innocent too?

I can sort of go along with the theory that public feeling is so strong that it could possibly have effected the trial.

These people are guilty as sin though, and I bet it eats away at them that they can't gloat about it.I'm sure they'd love to shout it from the bloody roof tops.

[donohoe]

i meant there was no chance of them getting a fair trial