Looking to move.....

[Guest]

I'm on the verge of putting in an offer on a 2 bed flat in East Dulwich / Camberwell (Grove Hill Road). I live in East London at the moment so not too familar with the area! Is there anything I should know before I buy? Local transport / shops etc all seem great - but this is no substitute for living there? Any comments all gratefully received.

Thanks!

[Guest]

My wife and I moved from Bethnal Green to Bellenden (East Dulwich/Peckham border) in November 2005. We really love it here, ED has a great community feel, local shops, etc (if a few too many selling over-priced and pointless trinkets). More importantly, Lordship Lane has a great butcher, fishmonger, cheese shop, deli, and there's a lovely traditional greengrocer on North Cross Road. And Bellenden Road has some nice shops too and a lovely cafe (Petitou) on Choumert Road. The area is really nice if you want a bit more space, greenery and still feel relatively connected to London. Has to be said though, the transport sucks, especially if you've been used to the central line and rest of the tube network, but when you can actually get on a train they're fast to London Bridge and there are some good bus routes. IMHO ED/Peckham is better than Camberwell, but I'm sure there are many who will disagree. Esentially, we're really glad we moved and there isn't anywhere else in London we'd rather be (though having a 3 month old baby influences our view - ED is a bit of a nappy valley - so if you're bothered by kids being everywhere, it might not be ideal). Hope that helps, Mike

[Tom]

Do it - we moved from Clapham and love it. If you have kids, its perfect, if you don't, there is loads to do and you still get a good amount of property for your money.

Great community, which is changing for better / worse depending on point of view! I would suggest you sit on the fence regarding that one on this forum!

The future of ED borders also looking good, with regeneration of Forest Hill, Honor Oak, Nunhead, Peckham etc.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Yes do it. Its a good place to live and the public transport isnt THAT bad - although we would never admit it in public. You can get a train from ED station to London Bridge about every 10 to 20 minutes depending on the time - its 12 minutes into London Bridge. The 176 bus takes you to Oxford Street, the 185 to Victoria and the 40 to the City. They also go southbound to places that are marked on maps as "Here be dragons" - but they might be worth exploring if you have a pyth helmet and gaters.

You have Kings College Hospital at Denmark Hill, loads of Doctors and more Dentists than you can shake a stick at.

Lordship Lane is paved in gold and the police station is an architecturaly sublime edifice. We have a host of famous celebrity residents, whose names I cannot remember.

The "real" cockerney locals all have rickets and so can be easily spotted limping down The Lane. They dont visit the hospital, doctors or dentists very often and dont patronise the fresh food shops - hence the rickets. They do provide some delightful local colour with their cheerful gap toothed grins, willingness to collect rag and bones and an endless stream of cockerney songs that they are want to spontaneously burst into when more that 2 of them meet on a street corner.

[Joe likes dinner]

On the public transport note, lest we forget that a 10 minute bus ride, or a 20 minute uphill 'stroll' away is Denmark Hill, which has regular trains to Victoria , Blackfriars and London Bridge all of which take about 10-14 minutes.

As soon as you get used to it, you will forget what it was like to depend on tube and transport no longer seems like an issue. This is coming from someone who lived in Waterloo, Bethnal Green, Ladbrooke Grove and then off to the darkest parts of outer Streatham. There may be no tube, but don't forget ED is still only in zone 2!

All you need now is a feeling of moral superiority over folk who live in Clapham and you are set for life!

[Guest]

And lets not forget the marvellous no. 12 bendy bus, which takes you through Peckham, Camberwell, Walworth, Elephant and Westminster to Piccadilly and Oxford Circus. If I catch this bus on Barry Road, and there's isn't an insane amount of traffic, I can get to Piccadilly in just under 40 minutes, which isn't too bad for the cheapest form of public transport.

[batdog]

Sara,

East Dulwich = best kept secret in London (tu)

[Quaywe]

SHHHHHH, don't tell her anything else or it won't be a secret any more!!! Then everyone will want to live here.

Whoops, too late. ;-)

[dulwichmum]

Dear Sara,

I agree with Batdog (as always) Dulwich is the best part of London.

[Guest]

dulwichmum Wrote:

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> Dear Sara,

>

> I agree with Batdog (as always) Dulwich is the

> best part of London.

Yep , if you believe all this crap about ED good luck and welcome to another boring overpriced ,dirty and overpopulated part of London.

[mattC]

I don't know. We ED folk seem to be very proud of what is, a pretty typical, south of the river, suburban dump.

Contrary to what some people say on here, there are very few good shops, and there's not a single good restaurant - I've tried them all many times, each occasion hoping to be surprised, yet not one of them can serve you up a well though out plate to remember.

But, it's the best we can afford.

[dulwichmum]

Dear Mr Ibo,

I think you are being far too harsh. We are surrounded by lovely parks here in Duwlich, and it is not yet as commercial, built up or expensive as Clapham or Battersea. We have the lovely picture gallery and Horniman museum on our doorstep. I think also that the streets seem safer, less 'dirty' and 'overpopulated' (to Quote Ibo) than Brixton, Peckham, Streatham or Clapham. I don't mind not having the tube, as we have more of a village or community feel around here. What is not to like?

[Jeremy]

mattC is also being a bit harsh... but... he does have a point on the restaurants. A couple of them are pleasant enough, but nothing particularly memorable - which is strange, as the shops in the area seem to have something of a "foodie" bias.

[Joe likes dinner]

Indeed, food is certainly better than many areas, but i feel that this is because there is a reasonably broad choice...

Many of the ED eateries do have it rather soft with the nice captive audience and could do with a firm-to-reasonable poking in the ribs in terms of service, imagination and value.

[nutty]

Are you kidding me?

At least 3 got mentioned in this years Good Food Guide (The Green, Palmerston, Franklins) and I suspect that Tandoori Nights would be well up there in any Good Curry Guide (may have to buy it to check).

Plus it has one of the best value Thai restaurants I can think of (Thai Corner)

Out of interest - if you guys hate the restaurants in ED so much - where do you eat instead? I'd love to know cause they must be top restaurants...

[Jeremy]

I don't hate the restaurants in ED - but I feel that Palmerston and Franklins charge almost West End prices, and there's better food to be had for the money in town. Never tried The Green though, maybe I will give it a go!

[Incitatus]

I think ED offers a reasonable choice of reasonable/good restaurants which is fine, and I wouldn?t expect much more of the area, but to go out for memorable meal, perhaps a special occasion you got to head for the centre of town (with the odd exceptions) always has been the way, always will. But that?s good, I'm not sure if I'd want to have a special occasion place bang next door to where I get my newspaper.

[mockney piers]

There is better and worse to be had in town. Franklins isn't centre of town prices, I've been to the likes of Fifteen, Ubon, St john's and the Ivy and they're a league or two ahead in prices (and in the case of fiteen, miles behind in quality ?24 for the dry roast pork, hello?!). Considering how much lazy, overrated food there is to be had in london, I actually think Franklins is pretty good value for money. The Palmerston is still, at the end of the day a (pretensious up it's own nether regions) pub, and perhaps should behave a bit more like one sometimes (ie friendly, welcoming).

There are better places, Chez Bruce between balham and wandsworth is absolutely superb and only a bit more expensive than franklins. I posted up a couple more examples earlier on another thread, and there are plenty more, but considering how dissapointing food can so often be in soooo many of the hyped places around town, Franklins have rarely put a foot wrong for me (even if it can be a little cramped at times).

Someone said we're a captive clientele which is just nonsense, you can be in the west end, clerkenwell or hoxton very quickly on public transport. I'd give Crystal Palace a decent shout for some great little eateries too, and of course Tooting if you want a more adventurous curry, none of them that far really.

[nutty]

Agreed that you can get better food in town. I recently went to Petrus which clearly can't be matched by East Dulwich, but then the ?250/head isn't either.

There are places in the West End that cost the same as the Palmerston but I'm not sure I'd class any of them as any better. The problem with the cost of food in the centre is that you have to pay more for where you are eating. The bonus of having somewhere like the Palmerston is that you can (or at least hope to) have more of your dosh go towards ingredients and paying the chef and staff rather than the rent.

Obviously the way ED is going this won't long be the case :)

[Incitatus]

Went to Arbutus on Frith Street Soho last week, the proud new owner of a Michelin Star, stunning food, paid less than I have at Franklins. Now Franklins is pretty good but it ain't in the same league.

[Huguenot]

Nutty's gotta be on the right track here... ED is exceptional! What's your point of comparison? South Ken? Peckham? The Savoy Grill? I feel warm inside when I return from my travels!

Sara, please ignore Ibo, he's a lonely soul and wouldn't even be happy if he could walk deserted streets shouting at lampposts. The grass is always greener elsewhere for our resident nutter; ;-) you can take a horse to happy pills, but you can't...

I always reckoned the first way we judged a local restaurant is whether it's better or worse than we can generate at home, followed by whether the ingredients, preparation, service and environment justify the outlay. Then there's always the convenience factor.

Places like Upstairs at the EDT, Chopsticks and oddly enough The Green always went out the window for me on the first criterion, but blundered back into contention on the final one :)

I would reckon that beacon of culinary excellence El Paso harks back to the time when for most locals the mysteries of the orient meant a donkey with a sombrero (apologies mockney), but can be very much enjoyed when combined with a Homer Simpson tie and a post ironic rendition of the chicken song!

Many of the others beat the West End hands down on the full combination of factors. Surely there's not a big enough catchment area to sustain 'novelty' restaurants? That's just a factor of suburbia, and they're not in ED for the same reason we don't have a Japanese Noh Theatre.

Franklin's is quite excellent, and I find their devilled kidneys positively surprising every time I try them. Fiercely reliable British cooking. Offally good.

You'd have to go as far west as Battersea or as far east as Canterbury to find as good a combination of restaurants.

[blinder999]

obviously this thread's gone wildly off-topic - but did anyone end up going to the French restaurant near the Plough? If so, how was it?

[nutty]

Incitatus Wrote:

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> Went to Arbutus on Frith Street Soho last week,

> the proud new owner of a Michelin Star, stunning

> food, paid less than I have at Franklins. Now

> Franklins is pretty good but it ain't in the same

> league.

Fair play - I'll give that place a try. If it's as good as you say it won't be cheap for long.

[Mark]

Le Moulin (up by the Plough/Library), we went there on Valentines day and it was great (not a heart shaped balloon in sight). It's a quiet, small French restaurant run by Margret and Eric and it's a step back in time (about 20 years). Clientele was generally 50ish and regulars ("bottle of the usual white please Margret"). Decor is pleasantly brown but it's very clean and they obviously look after the place. Food was OK, had a rack of lamb which was pleasant but the fact the protruding bones had those little, white, paper things on them that looked like small chef's hats made it more enjoyable. The lemon sorbet had a fanned out wafer in it like when you were a kid.

It's not going to match other places for food but the experience was different and enjoyable. Like I said, there are regulars there and they're regular for a reason. It's a little gem of a place; we can't wait to take some visiting friends there for the experience.

2 of us x 3 courses + ?16 bottle of wine = ?40 + tip (it wasn't called a 'service charge' in the 80's) so no complaints there.

I'd say if you're looking to move, it's another reason to do so.

[Guest]

Le moulin. Is it smoking or non smoking?