Anyone else getting very little sleep at the moment?!

[crystal7]

Right. 2nd baby is 8wks old now and while a mostly chilled out and happy little man by day the nights are pretty hideous! He's up every 2 hrs (sometimes more!) and feeding winding and resettling can take 40 min. I know this is not that unusual for breastfed babies and it's still early days but the nights combined with him being up all evening mostly (cluster??) feeding and having to deal with toddler in the day (though should mention I'm lucky enough to have some childcare) means that the tiredness is hitting me like a ton of bricks! We are co sleeping which helps a bit. My daughter was(is!) not a great sleeper but always did 3 hrs and dropped off straight after a feed. Having to wind baby boy has been a revelation! He has got a cold a the moment bless him which isn't helping. I wonder if I should try and limit his day time sleep or is that crazy at this stage? He has a couple of big naps usually. Realise probably the only thing to do is think of it as a phase and wait for it to pass. Planning on introducing bedtime etc in the New Year. Have tried a few times before but he's been very resistant. Any wise words? Or sympathy?!

[Fuschia]

I wonder why he is so windy... Does he latch ok, yellow poo etc?

Do you think you have a Fast let down ?

Google lactose overload

Foremilk/hind milk imbalance

Do you switch sides a lot in the evening?

I forget at what point babies start to recognise night from

Day, but your problem sounds more specific

Hugs, you must be particularly worn out with Xmas approaching x

[Pickle]

So sorry to hear this, having been suffering from sleep deprivation myself this week I know how horrible it is.

Fuschia has pretty much covered my checklist of potential issues - certainly start with latch, might be worth getting someone to check his tongue (as so many of us have discovered, tongue tie can go undetected and have a huge impact on feeding/settling).

When I was struggling (pre tongue-tie being diagnosed with #1) I was advised to feed off one side for as long as possible when the cluster feeding was happening - it may feel like he's getting less, but he will be getting more of the rich hindmilk rather than the sugary foremilk.

Also might be worth looking at your diet, I found certain foods really seemed to affect my milk, especially with #2 who was quite a windy/sicky baby. Of course usefully after 3.5 years I can't remember what those foods were :-$

Certainly no need to cut down daytime sleep at this point, sounds like two naps is about right. I seem to remember there used to be a "awake for 2 hours, asleep for 2 hours" pattern in the early months, cutting down daytime sleep might make the problem worse.

Hope you get a chance to have some rest over the weekend x

[Fuschia]

Nasal drops are good for a cold, saline

[Ruth_Baldock]

Us too! No sleep! Well...a bit of sleep. Lex has been teething and seb has stopped sleeping through now. He will normally resist bedtime and make so much noise that he wakes lex up and ghrn she is up from 7-11 usually :/ we were having wake ups as often as every 25minutes up to a week ago, thabkfully since her teething necklace arrived, this has calmed down.

It is utterly, bone crushingly exhausting- i totally empathise!

[nylonmeals]

crystal7, I totally feel your pain. We have a 6 week old and a 21 month old and are going through the same as you. It's hideous but I just keep telling myself that it is, like everything, just a phase. That said, I am thinking of maybe trying to cut out caffeine in case that is making the night issue worse. Friends say that drinking fennel tea is good, better than tea and coffee! I think that the other useful thing that I have been told, is to try not to compare baby 1 with baby 2 as they will always do things differently and at different times. Good luck (for the both of us) x

[Yak]

Loads of sympathy! It is utterly utterly horrific and beyond words. My baby was v v windy and we had a combination of milk imbalance, fast let down and lactose intolerance as mentioned by pickle and fuschia so check the kellymom website. I gave up dairy and did more cluster feeding on one side to access nice rich non-windy hind milk. It's not for the fainthearted - no cheese, chocolate or ice cream which are just life savers in those early months - but I noticed a real improvement on the wind front in a couple of days.

On the frequency of night feeds, no real advice - maybe sorting out the wind may help with that a bit? If he's not awake / wriggling around maybe he'll use less energy and get hungry less quickly?

Teething is causing mass sleep deprivation here, too. I think we just need a creche for all these teething babies and take shifts. It's just awful when their gums are even too sore to suck milk::(.

[Ruth_Baldock]

yak; there is nothing sadder than a sore baby who can,t even latch! teething powders didnt do much , or bonjela,but calgel really really.helped! do you have any? if not, we are about to go and bulk buy some- happy to drop some off to your poor exhausted self x

[Ruth_Baldock]

p.s. crystal; lex was so windy too despite excellent latch. i had OAL which didnt help. it all sorted itself out by 12 wks, thankgod

[nylonmeals]

@Yak, No cheese, chocolate or ice cream?? Yikes. Added to that, no milk or coffee too - horrendous. But it must be better than horrendously broken nights sleep!

Maybe worth giving a try and seeing what happens to the nights?

[Yak]

@ruth, aha, I'd forgotten calgel. We have some but so far I'd just been alternating calpol and calbruprofen. Will give it a whirl tonight and see what happens and let you know. Thanks for v kind offer tho!

@nylonmeals - yep, it was frankly hideous. But better than seeing little one in windy pain for hours every night. And you can get lactose free milk so after a while I could drink tea and coffee again. I think I gradually reintroduced dairy at about 12 wks, after having been off it from 3 wks in.

Fingers crossed everyone gets more sleep tonight! (Cue hollow laughter.....)

[Belle]

Totally sympathise too (as you know) but wd say that tho things at 11 weeks still tough at night, things in the evening improved about 8ish weeks so my hope and feeling is that it does get better bit by bit. Like you my first just fed every 3 hrs and went back to sleep at night, so the being awake for ages after a feed or sometimes not even to feed but just for fun, is a bit of a shock. I think the wind /feeding is a bit of a vicious circle - our problem was more reflux as you know but I found I would get into a cycle where he'd be really upset from all the winding/being sick, then wide awake so I'd feed to try to settle/get him back to sleep and then it would all start again. Once he started taking bigger feeds and going longer it got a bit easier. I find he sleeps better at night when has slept well in the day (but seems incapable of long sleeps unless on the move so this depends on what i'm doing in the day). Sleep begets sleep etc.

[Fuschia]

Lactose intolerance and cows milk

Protein allergy are two different problems

The first is unlikely In bsbies - breadth milk comedians lactose after all

But an

Overload is possible ESP of there ard latch issues/fast letdown /hindmilk imbalance

Cows milk protein Allergy is more common, and the proteins can be passed in Breast milk - hence worth trying an elimination diet if it seems a strong possibility

Children grow out of it usually, luckily

X

[crystal7]

Ah thanks everyone! Lovely to read all the replies. Not lovely that others are suffering but you know what I mean. In the early hours it can seem like everyone else's baby is sleeping more than yrs. Very true nylonmeals; a bad idea to compare 1st and 2nd babies but so hard not to see 1st as a benchmark!

Think latch is fine but I do have a very fast (overactive??) let down and he often gulps and splutters at the beginning of a feed. Poo is mustard colour and I try not to switch boobs too often. I maybe need to feed from the same side for a few of the night feeds before swapping though. I hadn't thought wind was a major issue. He does need a big burp after each feed though but that almost always happens with a few minutes of being upright/back rubbing etc. Am wondering if in the night I am feeding him when he's not that hungry so is bobbing on and off- coud cause wind?

The thought of cutting out dairy and caffeine fills me with dread! But may look into it. Have been drinking chamomile tea in the evenings in the hope that it will induce sleep but no luck yet (prob wishful thinking!)

Wishing everyone a better night tonight, I remember the horrors of teething well- all that to come!

[Belle]

gd to hear children grow out of the protein allergy as that is what the specialist thinks our son has, either causing or symptom of reflux. have been worrying a bit about weaning - how the hell to introduce dairy after being on dairy-free formula for instance.

anyway sorry for hijack C7!

[ChantalDesire]

I Know How your feeling I'm 19 and have a 7 month old son who is terrible at sleeping at night. He wakes up generally around 3am and wants to be up playing and never has a nap during the day. He is teething quite bad at the moment so sleep is a real problem x

[Fuschia]

Belle, I had cows milk protein allergy and grew out of it about the same time I started school

Can you ago for a referral to a dietician, to help you with weaning?

[jenc]

Such a relief to read this thread, my 4wo is keeping me up all evening feeding then when up in the night it's often 1.5-2 hrs of feeding and winding before we're back asleep. Yawn. Interesting what's been said about feeding from one side as long as possible in the evening, I tend to do 30ish mins on one side then swap, is that not long enough? Am going to try and start 'bedtime' in a couple of weeks too but have no idea how it's going to work with baby plus 25 month old! Much sympathy to all those not getting enough sleep.

[Fuschia]

Jenc, the thing about not switching too often is more when you have an unsettled baby Nd you feel empty so keep swapping desperately ... Baby ends up with lots of foremilk

If you are doing a good solid 30 mon feed then The baby comes off looking for more, they clearly do want the second Breast

So bit different

[cuppa tea]

crystal7 Wrote:

------------------------------------------------------

>

> Think latch is fine but I do have a very fast

> (overactive??) let down and he often gulps and

> splutters at the beginning of a feed.

Seem to remember my midwife suggesting my lying on my back and feeding the baby while on top of my tummy

...I think the logic being that it slowed the milk flow due to gravity. My first baby was very windy and it was a real pain (literally for him) for several weeks. I wasn't very good at remembering to wind him though and he also seemed to hang onto the wind when i did. Luckily by 12 weeks it all resolved itself. Fingers crossed you can get to the bottom of it. Being tired and trying to give up caffeine is a scary road!

>

[Fuschia]

One reassuring thing is that these thngs improve with age

Baby drains breast better

Any foremilk excess tends to

Settle

Baby digestive system matures

More mobile baby can burp more easily

[jenc]

Thanks for that Fuschia, she does come off on her own and then I offer the other side which she usually takes. Was up far too much last night and toddler also kept husband up so we're all sleep deprived in this house today, bleugh.

[Otta]

Both our girls are poorly, and last night was the worst night for all of us.

I'm only just on the way to work, and intend to be heading home again ASAP!

[nylonmeals]

It's the worst isn't it - newborns who already don't sleep brilliantly and then add in winter colds and sniffles and then they sleep even worse :-( We had the same as you last night Otta and our little one is only 6 weeks so too little I think for cough medicine or baby vicks etc. Ho hum. It will all pass I know......

[crystal7]

Then you throw 8 week jabs into the mix! Baby very unsettled last night...after a few better nights though so maybe there's hope...