Is my reason good enough, Complain or not

[twinhunters]

Hello, an elderly neighbour of mine was discharged from hospital she has numerous health conditions including cancer,stroke and renal problems. She was discharged from hospital 2 days ago and they actually dropped her home at 11:45 pm. Is it me, or do other people think this was acceptable? Due to no careers being available she was left in her wheelchair all night. I don?t want to skate the NHS because I know they are under a lot of pressure but I do believe this is wrong.

[kristymac1]

I think this is entirely wrong. I'm astonished that there wasn't a check to ensure that someone was at home to provide care for her on discharge. She sounds very vulnerable, if it were me I would at least bring the matter to a relevant person's attention and ask for an explanation as to why it was deemed appropriate.

[intexasatthe moment]

Blimey - no that's not acceptable ! And if she gets pressure sores from sitting ( and potentially ) weeing in w/c all night ,it's going to end up costing the NHS more .Oh ,and possibly inconviencing the poor person .

I think contact PALS at the hospital and explain what has happened .

[intexasatthe moment]

I can't believe that the hospital just discharged her without checking - something has surely gone wrong .

Delayed hospital transport ?? Agency failure ? Promise of carer on discharge not delivered ?

But definitely bring to attention of PALS ,hopefully they can find out what went wrong .

[nxjen]

Yes the NHS is under a lot of pressure and Kings do a wonderful job under very difficult circumstances but this is totally unacceptable. An elderly vulnerable neighbour of mine was given an assessment and appropriate arrangements made prior to discharge involving carers and the district nurse. It?s crazy and dangerous for her to have been brought home at that time of day when no support was available.

[Mystic Mog]

Please complain, things like this can not be allowed to happen, there have been quite a few cases in the press. Yes the NHS are under a great strain but this is total negligence.

[intexasatthe moment]

I can't help thinking that even if this was the result of a failure on the agency/carer provision aspect - why discharge such a vunerable person in the middle of the night ?

[fishbiscuits]

It's absolutely disgusting! Dropping an elderly and vulnerable person home in the middle of the night is already unacceptable. But when there's no care available to help her go to the toilet and get into bed.. outrageous..

[KidKruger]

At the least, there needs to be feedback so if this was an isolated (as opposed to systemic) occurrence it can be acknowledged and prevented from repeating, or that the process/approach can be fixed if it has an actual fault.

[Penguin68]

Generally the elderly 'block beds' because there is nowhere safe for them to be discharged to - in this instance this lady should also have been a bed-blocker, clearly. This should be reported - I would guess hold-ups in discharge (transport issues?) and failure to join-up care has meant that what was planned (probably that morning) as a safe discharge turned out not to be, but it should certainly be reported if only to make sure the proper processes are in place and followed to avoid a recurrence. At this time of year there are often bed shortages and the critically ill must be cared for, but some balance has to be made.

[colville09]

I had a similar situation with a friend about a month ago. He had been discovered laying in his flat, he had maybe been there about three days. After a few days in Kings, they discharged him. He could not walk, he lives in a upstairs flat. We were stonewalled when we talked about a care plan. It was surreal, their only concern was filling in a form saying a district nurse would call and so he had been been passed in community care. After two days on our sofa we had to get him back to A&E and they only kept him in because we sat with him there for eight hours.

[Sue]

Definitely complain.

That surely can't be hospital policy, so something has gone wrong, and somebody along the line should have realised that something was going wrong.

A complaint to PALS will be investigated, and at the very least may prevent this happening to anybody else.

[twinhunters]

Her carers were arranged for 5.30 but wasn?t transported home until 11.30 , so obviously Ambulances were busy , I phoned her social worker at hospital no reply , then they phoned me to say district nurse couldn?t make it today would I give her injection:( don?t want this happening to anyone else . They might not have someone to call to help .sad affairs 😢

[intexasatthe moment]

then they phoned me to say district nurse couldn?t make it today would I give her injection - WHAT !

Now that I do find outrageous .

[twinhunters]

I know good job my daughter is a student nurse at kings , not something I could do although nothing to it just I?m not comfortable with it 😩

[Sue]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> then they phoned me to say district nurse couldn?t

> make it today would I give her injection - WHAT

> !

>

> Now that I do find outrageous .

So do I, but cynically I suspect it all stems from the present NHS underfunding/understaffing whilst the effing Tories prepare to privatise the NHS.

Not that that excuses any individual/systemic failings in the sorry saga above.

[alice]

Wondering what OPs neighbour thinks. If someone?s got capacity they can make decisions others may not agree with. Not probably in this case.

[uncleglen]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> intexasatthe moment Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > then they phoned me to say district nurse

> couldn?t

> > make it today would I give her injection -

> WHAT

> > !

> >

> > Now that I do find outrageous .

>

>

> So do I, but cynically I suspect it all stems from

> the present NHS underfunding/understaffing whilst

> the effing Tories prepare to privatise the NHS.

>

> Not that that excuses any individual/systemic

> failings in the sorry saga above.

The f-ing tories eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/aug/05/how-virgin-became-one-of-the-uks-leading-healthcare-providers

And as a person who has worked in the NHS fyi EVERY single piece of equipment etc is bought from private companies....the only state VERY subsidised area is teaching the staff- who promptly bugger off

[rendelharris]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The f-ing tories eh?

> https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/aug/05/ho

> w-virgin-became-one-of-the-uks-leading-healthcare-

> providers

> And as a person who has worked in the NHS fyi

> EVERY single piece of equipment etc is bought from

> private companies....the only state VERY

> subsidised area is teaching the staff- who

> promptly bugger off

Yes, the f%^ing Tories indeed. If you read that article properly (get a grownup to help if necessary) you'll see that Labour asked Virgin to look at the NHS and report on what could be done to improve it. Labour did not award Virgin Care any NHS contracts for the simple reason that Virgin Care did not exist before 2012 (previously Assura Medical from 2010), the year it gained its first NHS contracts. All of the ?2bn of NHS contracts awarded to Virgin Care in its entire history were won under the coalition or Tory governments. Wrong again.

[nxjen]

?EVERY single piece of equipment etc is bought from private companies?

Where else can equipment be bought other than private companies? Anyway, this bickering is totally inappropriate for the thread and will just put more people off the EDF.

[Blah Blah]

I find it incredulous that anyone could even begin to think that Tory policy has not led to the crisis in the NHS and specifically adult social care.

Uncleglen, go and talk to any local authority and ask them how central government funding cuts, almost 60% worth have impacted on adult social care since 2010. Because it is actually worse than whatever fantasy you have going on in your head. Osborne deliberately sought to shrink the state to levels not seen since 1930 - a totally unsustainable level of cuts vs genuine need. And that is before we get onto other health impacts, like mental health.

[Blah Blah]

Quite Nxjen. Uncleglen might want to look at what any treatment or operation costs for the NHS and see how much more it costs in the private sector. He then might also want to ask why cuts have led to more NHS patients being outsourced to private companies at that increased cost to the NHS. And then come back and have a conversation about the Tory cuts that have exacerbated that situation.

[Pugwash]

Complain to PALS (also to Southwark News).

Kings (and other hospitals) were informed some time ago that elderly/vulnerable patients should not be discharged in the evening as even though a care package may have been arranged and the hospital informed of the details of the agency and time of first call, they should have realised that the patient would not have made it home in time.

When I was working, we used to inform the ward that unless patient was discharged and would be at home for x time, they should not discharge someone who did not have a reliable relative or friend waiting for them at home.

Care Agencies rarely work past 9 am. Also ambulance crews should check that patient could transfer independently in a chair or bed before leaving the house. If person was non weight bearing, the crew should assist into bed.

[intexasatthe moment]

Pugwash thanks - good to know that there are/should be procedures to avoid this sort of situation .

I suppose it's possible that the person herself when it became obvious that she would be v late home fed up with waiting and longing to be out of the hospital and at home ,resisted attempts to get her to stay . And I suppose it's also possible that she dismissed the ambulance crew and didn't want them putting her to bed .

I find it hard to think that the ambulance staff just abandonded her in her wheelchair at midnight . Well ,I hope there's more to the whole sorry event .

[Pugwash]

Complain to PALS (also to Southwark News).

Kings (and other hospitals) were informed some time ago that elderly/vulnerable patients should not be discharged in the evening as even though a care package may have been arranged and the hospital informed of the details of the agency and time of first call, they should have realised that the patient would not have made it home in time.

When I was working, we used to inform the ward that unless patient was discharged and would be at home for x time, they should not discharge someone who did not have a reliable relative or friend waiting for them at home.

Care Agencies rarely work past 9 am. Also ambulance crews should check that patient could transfer independently in a chair or bed before leaving the house. If person was non weight bearing, the crew should assist into bed.

SORRY SHOULD HAVE SAID 9 PM not 9 AM. Some folk are desperate to get out of hospital and do not really appreciate that they are in a weak state and cannot climb stairs/get into bed etc and are too proud to seek help.

I recall many years ago that an elderly person arrived very late evening at a local care home - the Ambulance Service had been given the wrong address for person - the home took her/him in for the night and the next day sent them back to the hospital. Worse is when family/friends say that they will be at the property to let in discharged patient and approximate time is given for discharge and when ambulance crew get to the property - cannot get in so end up returning patient to hospital ward to find that their bed has already been allocated to someone else!