Waiting for the 4-late-4

[Lee Scoresby]

In autumn last year I asked, is the 484 (serving Grove Vale and East Dulwich residents) the worst bus service in London? Plenty of you knew what I meant.

Such high hopes as a new contractor took over this spring. And how quickly we're back to the same old nonsense: multiple buses arriving with endless chilly waiting between. Buses groaning like sardine cans in rush hour, leaving people at stops.

Frequencies posted at stops seem to have been quietly altered. Now the contractor can get away with running just 4 buses an hour.

So where is the ever-useless TfL? Or those brave tribunes of the people at City Hall? Silent as ever, is where.

Lee Scoresby

[cella]

yes indeed I waited 25 minutes for one this evening - could have walked it - should have anyway! its just that the 484 drops me almost outside home which is handy when travelling late at night.

[Aims]

Agreed, the crazy irregularity is very frustrating, but this has changed my life: how http://countdown.tfl.gov.uk/

If you have a smart phone you can check just before you leave the house and time your arrival at the bus stop to perfection! Also good for checking to see how long your wait will be if you are at the bus stop already, then you can decide to walk if it is going to be ages (though of course caution and common sense should be used if using your smart phone out and about).

So far it is impressively accurate too. Amazing.

[figgins]

Just for the record, you don't need a "smart" phone. A "dumb" phone will also do it, if you know the code of the bus stop. Txt the bus stop code to 87287. More info here:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/11560.aspx

And, yes, I agree: it's a very good and very accurate service.

[drew]

There is also the buschecker app - much faster than the web and very accurate.

I never wait more than 2mins at the bus stop these days ... a life changer!

[Lee Scoresby]

So, hmm, never mind how contract-breakingly crap the service is, so long as you or I KNOW how crap it is at that par-TIC-ular moment?

Don't get me wrong, I get the point, better to wait somewhere warm.

But my Qs are: Why are we waiting? Why do Londoners put up with it? Why are we paying ?60+ pm on the Oyster and then shlepping down the wintery road with that heavy load? Where are the democratic mechanisms of oversight and objection that work easily and effectively for us in this urban context? How do we challenge the faceless complacent ones?

For years TfL never got its act together to install Countdown at all stops, or even major logical stops. Will its successor ever be rolled out? That's publicly displayed information for the hapless app-less.

Even in the anomised 21stc the revolution will not be an app.

Lee Scoresby

[drew]

It is what it is. We accept it, deal with it as best we can and move onto more important things in life. If we cant accept it, we move somewhere else ...

When you find a bus service that is always on time, give me a call !!!

[languagelounger]

Switzerland. The buses run on time. Really they do.

[malleymoo]

I agree it is really frustratingly bad. My daughter has to use it for school and has to allow at least an hour to do what should be a 20 minute journey max! Also if she does an afterschool activity she reguarly has to wait 45 minutes or more just to get on the bus. Given how dark it is now I hate knowing she has to do it. The biggest problem does seem to be the busses are so full at peak times that the even if a bus arrives often 3 go by before a driver will even stop. They eally need to increase frequency during peak times!

[Lee Scoresby]

Honestly drew, I don't want to get into a troll-off with you, but jesus, that eternal English attitude:

1) It's crap and there's nothing we can do.

2) Nowhere else in the universe can possibly have arranged it better.

3) ING-ER-LAND, LUV IT OR LEAVE IT, GEEZA!

There certainly are "more important things in life". I'd love not to think about buses. But life is measured out in time, and tiiiiiiiiime is what I'm expending at bus stops rather than doing those things.

Drew, you need to distinguish life's inevitable (taxes, death) and random (shit happens) events ("events, dear boy, events") with which we do indeed have to deal, from crap that's handed down to us coz we say nothing. Apps are most excellent, but your preference for a techno-fix over analysing from first principles isn't robust common sense but a choice you've made.

Enough about the bus now. I'm just saying is all.

Lee Scoresby

[drew]

Lee, firstly Im not English. I decided to move here many years ago, and take the good with the bad. Buses are far from the top of my list of concerns - and probably far down on the list of many people. Where I came from, the buses mostly came on time, but the traffic heading to the city was so bad you were better off walking.

Secondly, what are you going to do to make the 484 run on time? Once you have an answer, dont tell me - just go and do it. I dont want to hear it on the forum. Less talking, more walking. It would at least beat waiting for the bus ... :-)

I have offered one of many solutions to improve the situation (the app / tfl website / texting service) ... not sure what else you can do about it!

[Sue]

I agree the 484 is a crap service, but I don't use it often enough for it to affect me.

If you do, surely it would be fairly easy to find out which company is running it (Google?) and write to their Chief Exec?

And copy to your MP, Boris, whoever?

In my experience, going to the top generally gets people focused, especially if it's copied elsewhere.

Drew, whilst your comments were useful, there's a difference between putting pressure on a bus company to run a decent service and being able to find out when an irregular and unreliable service may be delivering a bus to a bus stop near you .....

Edited for clarity

Edited again to say that obviously I don't think Google is a bus company, it was a suggested course of action :))

[aquarius moon]

The 484 is run by 'Abellio' now, the same as the 343, which follows a similar route but is much more reliable.

[buggie]

I have to rely on the 484 to get me to and from work - the countdown website is helpful to some extent, but there has been occasion where a bus listed on there has failed to materialise, added stress as I have 15mth old bugglet with me, but I'm much luckier than hubbie who has collect her from nursery and wait up to 20mins for a 484 to show up and then negotiate getting on, hoping to find a seat.

Find it amazing that the same company runs the 343 as it's so much more reliable... is it a funding issue?

484 being a shorter route/single decker is it not as profitable so maybe not seen to be worth so much effort?

[The Minkey]

I raised the erratic service on a thread earlier this year, and Renata Hamvas said she'd raise it with the relevant authorities. Never heard anything more about it, and the service has continued in its hit and miss fashion.

Another gripe I have about the 484 is that the drivers never alert you to diversions - one driver, having diverted down to the bottom of the Rye, after the accident on Denmark Hill earlier this year forced closure of the route for a few days, went so far as to tell me it wasn't his job to inform his passengers. Nice..

[Moos]

I thought you travelled by balloon, Lee Scoresby.

[Sue]

Moos Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I thought you travelled by balloon, Lee Scoresby.

xxxxxx

Well spotted :)

[tarafitness]

I'd vote the number 37 is worse!!

[Sue]

484 is much worse than the 37, in my experience.

[tarafitness]

yeah... actually I had a rethink yesterday morning as I turned onto east dulwich road and hobbled along using my crutch to get the bus... I was so close and I'm sure the bus driver saw me but he just closed the doors - despite a kind lady trying to get him to leave them open!

it happens all too often... plus had an awful experience on there a week or so back with a woman giving me grief because my rucksack banged into her... I tried to explain that I couldn't help my bag because I was holding onto a crutch in one hand and hanging onto the bar with another trying not to fall over or twist my newly operated on ankle! All the while people (not elderly, disabled, pregnant etc) sat in the priority seats just staring at me making no effort to get up...

maybe it's just bad luck but I never have a problem getting offered a seat on any other routes!

[standswithfist]

the 343 is no way more reliable - I was using the 343 up until last week about 6 times a week as it was SO rubbish. One night I waited at the bustop for it whilst 16 other buses passed it after being more than half an hour late.

Not only are they they dreadful on timing but they also decide to stop midway and tell you to get out to wait for the next one. It happened so many times I actually sent in a complaint last week. Not that i've heard anything back mind!

[DulwichDeviant]

DELETED

[The Minkey]

I get the 343 everyday into town for work and back, it's been pretty reliable in my experience, during those hours at least,perhaps because I'm near the start of the route in both directions so the service is less susceptible to the vagaries of traffic flow.

[aquarius moon]

I use the 343 or 484 (whatever comes first), in both directions, six days a week.

The 343 nearly always comes first, at any time of the day.

In fact, even if I just miss a 343, another one usually arrives before a 484.

It is a much more reliable service & the drivers are a lot more 'passenger friendly'.

[The Minkey]

Totally agree, AQ. Hardly ever have to wait long, and on the rare occasion I do, well, that's just the luck of the draw. Wonder why it is that the 343 drivers are so much more considerate of their passengers when it's the same company running both routes? I've seen 343's wait for people running for the bus on a regular basis. Having moved here from Brixton where you'd often reach the stop to have the doors close in your face (or on your head as my OH once experienced), the 343s drivers have been a really pleasant surprise.