Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I actually used the word 'trope' as a semiotic tool to describe a series of ideas, debates, rhetorical arguments employed by certain groups to advance their cause. I am not simply discussing an idea but a style of presenting an argument which attempts to circumvent logic through rhetorical devices. "The straw man argument." as you correctly point out.


Whilst ACM might feel that he is a lone wolf with iconoclastic libertarian arguments of some description,, I am sorry to shatter that self delusion because if you lie with dogs you are likely to get fleas.


For example, turning to the free speech argument: you cannot use your enjoyment of the right to free speech to endanger my life or the right to life of others. Where rights conflict there has to be a priority between rights. So not all rights are absolutes, some rights must be qualified. Incitement to racial hatred is a crime for that reason.






I want to resist the temptation of saying more because if you read my original post, very, slowly, you will get some of my points.

Ted Max Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know France and Paris very well.

>

> Ha ha.

>

> All. The. Talents.


I was in a relationship with une francaise for years, so there Max :P ..........may even have seen Nette down the Bois de Boulogne but no money changed hands ;) (I think)

Fabricio the Guido Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> For example, turning to the free speech argument: you cannot use your enjoyment of the right to free

> speech to endanger my life or the right to life of others. Where rights conflict there has to be a

> priority between rights. So not all rights are absolutes, some rights must be qualified.

> Incitement to racial hatred is a crime for that reason.


Although, judging by your first post, you seem to think that only some racial hatred is a crime?

I wouldn't punch you or encourage anyone to punch you just because I thought you are an idiot with idiotic views. I wouldn't expect anyone to physically attack you for holding your views. It is interesting that you assume that any confrontation must lead to a physical one. How about I just call you out for what you are?



The video you posted ended by stating that "Anti racism is just another word for anti-white." If you do not support such groups why do you find their arguments so appealing?

"I do not support the EDL. I do not support the BNP. I do like to think I understand why these organisations exist." You understand why these organisations exists but you cannot see the point of Black Police Association?


You don't have to be a card carrying member of any of those groups; besides they are not outlawed in this country. However, despite not carrying a card, your style of argument, and the reasoning or lack thereof, exposes you for what you really are.


I am not ashamed of being wrongly called a hypocrite. As a liberal, I can be. You on the other hand seem to protest vigorously when your ideas are shown to be the product of certain disreputable schools of thought.

I think there is a gray area with 'freedom of speech' and perhaps no right or wrong answer to it. Definitely words can cause damage, hurt, upset. Bullying for example often manisfests itself as words. Libel and slander is also the product of words. A viewpoint is just that, a viewpoint. And basis in fact usually requires more than words to validate a viewpoint (this is what the law relies on of course).


Yes, we have freedom of speech and should be thankful for it, but ultimately we also have responsibility to not abuse that freedom and hurt others.

I wouldn't punch you or encourage anyone to punch you just because I thought you are an idiot with idiotic views.


Arrrghhhh.....and another thread starts the descent into the pursuit of personal attack.


I think acm has been clear in what his viewpoint is. Maybe you agree Guido, maybe you don't, but it is possible to discuss it without resorting to insult surely? It's just a forum...chill....

I'm afraid that ignorant hate is not simply expressing an opinion.


If we live in a society where we tolerate people opining that this minoity race is subhuman or that minority religion is evil then inevitably leads to that sense of impunity stretching to going out 'paki-bashing' or killing a young man at a bus-stop for the colour of his skin or having an instiutionally racist bias in an organisation who should be safeguarding all its citizens.


We are improving and we're better than many places, but there is a long way to go.


The key word, that DJKQ repeats here is responsiblity.


A free society places an onus on it's citizens to exercise its freedoms responsibly. If people abuse those rights then I'm afraid those freedoms have to be limited.


I'm afraid to say that given that our society hasn't proved itself free of the problems of racism and hate crimes, then we cannot all individually yet be trusted with those freedoms.


And I really don't see this as biased against the whites. Plenty of muslim preachers of hate have been kicked out or banned (except the one's Ken Livingstone or that idiot George Galloway likes), and plenty of organisations that share those hateful opinions have also been banned.

From this thread: http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,736932,740068#msg-740068


  Quote
it cannot be denied there is a growing problem with Islamification in this country


and


  Quote
I am certainly recognising the legitimate concerns of a huge number of people in this country, and for those people organisations like the EDL and the BNP are the only groups that do represent them.


Followed by a link to a Youtube video which was uploaded by a user called EDLraw.

That telegraph article is a bit sensationalist I think. Yes there are islamic communities that share a culture but there is hardly an islamification of the entire nation taking place. Christianity and Catholicism are not without their own forms of extremism either.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • I would disagree that the tables outside the Blue Brick bothered nobody. They were not within the cafe's curtilage (one table was even placed on the other side of the road!) but on a narrow public footpath where pedestrians have a "public right of way". Added to that, some customers rearranged the tables so the footpath was blocked completely. 
    • Walking last Friday early evening anywhere near where the bottom end of Lordship Lane meets the Goose Green roundabout, one would have been directly confronted - as I was - with this scene: Outside the East Dulwich Tavern an impenetrable phalanx of pushing yobs, shouty louts and selfish yahoos pressed outward from the open doors of this establishment, past the curtilage (the land in front of and owned by the business), all across the public right of way, to the kerbside. This was the situation all the way along, end to end. I watched as passersby, old people, children, parents with buggies, people just going about their business, were forced by these booze-sucking bellowing scumbags onto the road - where, at that hour, traffic rushed endlessly off the roundabout. We have, I realised, somehow become so used to this revolting spectacles as to believe it to be inevitable. It is not. This is why I'm dropping this post. Enough really is enough. This roiling boozy blockade represents a total failure by all the responsible authorities - the licencing authority, for example - but most of all (yet once more, again, as ever), by Southwark Council. Two very different comparisons to give you some perspective: 1. The Kings Head pub on the corner of Albermarle and Stafford Streets, London SW1. Here too, patrons like to drink and chat outside on a warm evening - why should they not. But here, on the latter side a line marks the curtilage on the pavement. Drinkers remain, respectfully, in good order, within the line, watched, quietly and carefully, by a security guard. I wager good money this arrangement is a condition of this pub's licence. 2. The Blue Brick is a cafe in the quiet backstreets of East Dulwich, on the corners of Fellbrigg and Shawbury Roads. Until a few months ago, about half its covers were tables out on the pavement. They bothered nobody. Oh! But they extended all of several centimetres too far into the footpath, so into fearless action swang Southwark Council officers - and now these tables are gone. Result, eh? "Well you see," some wiseacre said to me, "There needs to be a complaint." Not actually true, but for sure this is all too often how local authorities get pushed to do what they should be doing. Hard to think why a complaint trumps, say (and god forbid!) a child being injured on the road. In which circumstance, of course!, Southwark would swing into noisy, virtue-signalling, belated action. But in any case let this post be considered a big, very definite COMPLAINT about this prolonged abuse of our public right of way. I invite readers who agree with me to add their voices. Oh, and all those wee local ward councillors might get off their chufties, defy their party managers, and actually help sort this scandal out. Thanks for reading, Lee Scoresby
    • Hi there, I saw that Google lists the park opening time as 7:30am, but I was wondering if it might actually open earlier than that - maybe anyone who’s out running early or passing by has noticed?  
    • We are thrilled to announce that Little Stars Creche in Dulwich will be opening its doors on 28th April and we would love to invite you and your little ones to an open day where you can meet our team and visit our wonderful setting.  Little Stars is a fun creative space for children aged 2 to 4 years to enjoy whilst parents and carers get some well needed time to catch up on life! We are so excited to bring this much-needed service to the community, and we want to thank all the wonderful parents and carers for participating in our recent survey. Your feedback was invaluable in shaping Little Stars and ensuring it meets the needs of local families. For full information about Little Stars and a detailed schedule please visit our webpage here: Little Stars Crèche We can’t wait to meet you and your little stars soon!
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...