Regional Pay

[Marmora Man]

On Tuesday the chancellor announced a review into regional pay for public sector employees.

Due to national pay bargaining in the public sector local public sector wages do not take into account the lower cost of living across the country - for example, a nurse, doctor, schoolteacher or a civil servant can live well in the north east where the lower cost of housing, rates and other factors make life more affordable.

This leads to inequalities in key areas where public sector wages are so attractive other employers find it uneconomical to recruit - leading to a dearth of private sector employment and an over reliance upon the public sector. cf: Scotland, the North East, Liverpool and other similar areas.

What does this house think?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I thought that was the whole point of London Weighting, no?

[Voyageur]

London weighting doesn't begin to recompense for the cost of living in the capital. I work in a govn dept that has sites in various parts of the uk and those on the same grade in the NE for example tend to live in decent sized houses whilst I can only afford a little flat. Still, it's my choice to live in London - for the time being at least....

[katie1997]

Since when did Scotland become a region?

And isn't the only reason people can afford bigger houses in areas outside London due to the fact that they're far less populated and so there's more space? What about people living in the highlands and islands and other rural areas where they are reliant on things like ferries, cars and have less choice of fuel types, food shopping and so on?

The only thing I have noticed that is cheaper up north is buying a round of drinks in the pub :-$

[Undisputedtruth]

More lunacy policies from the Tories. Don't they know there are already 200 pay bargaining units in the Civil Service. Why increase them by twelve folds. If the government was so concern about regional pay differences then they could have resolved the London Weightings a long time ago.

[Senor Chevalier]

Well it is obviously very inefficient not to recognise regional differences. Public sector workers in the North East (for example) are highly paid relative to their local private sector peers (if any). A private company run efficiently sets wage at the level needed to attract suficient employees of suitable quality.

Whereas without regional differentiiation we end up with those who land a public sector job in a deprived / cheap area as relative lottery winners. They get to buy "taste the difference" (assuming stocked locally) whereas someone doing the same job in an area of higher living cost has to make do with the "essentials" range to make ends meet.

That said, we remove the incentivise and nobody would live up norf at all... :)

[SCSB79]

katie1997 Wrote:

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> Since when did Scotland become a region?

and

> have less choice of fuel types

Have petrol and diesel not made it north of the border? are they still stuck on candle power up there?

[david_carnell]

Fair day's pay for a fair day's work?

Asking two people to do identical jobs but different pay due to living in different areas is tinkering at the edges. It'll save peanuts but makes a nice statement for a Chancellor on the ropes

[katie1997]

SCSB79 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> katie1997 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Since when did Scotland become a region?

> and

> > have less choice of fuel types

>

> Have petrol and diesel not made it north of the

> border? are they still stuck on candle power up

> there?

Fuel for heating, not cars, is what I should have made clear. And I'd guess that money needed for heating is higher as its a lot colder up there too...

[ibilly99]

Always winds up the Jocks calling their 'country' a region keep up the good work Marmora Man - the second div Scottish politicos stay up north of the border and spout their English hating rhetoric in their half bilion house of vanities whilst the 'can do' UK Scots come down to make their fame and fortune in the civilised South and the global international city of the world London. Katie welcome to civilisation we need the best Scots here.

[katie1997]

It IS a country ibilly that's why not a 'country' you silly boy (6)

Were you born on a pool table by any chance?

[ibilly99]

All this blood and soil nonsense and Culloden fixation reminds me of Northern Ireland and their dyed in the wool bigotry - welcome to civilisation and clement weather Katie - when the Scots have an army under their parliament's control I'll call you a nation till then you are a region of the UK. BTW legally it should be called the Scottish Excutive not the Scottish Government - correct language matters.

Great Scotsmen No 1 - Sean Connery - tax exile and wife beater.

[katie1997]

Not a fan of old Sean and I'm not a nationalist either. Now I suggest you go and get your stripper heels on, Bono's waiting for you...you can talk rubbish together. And blame new labour for the so-called Scottish 'government' while you're at it.

[ibilly99]

No thanks he's another tax dodging Celt btw -stuck in my craw his Glastobury rendition of Jerusalem and yest it was on Sunday , Bloody Sunday to boot.

[nashoi]

I suspect it's wishful thinking to assume unemployment in the north can be kept down without government investment. Apart from all the more obvious causes such as the swap from manufacturing to services and outsourcing to China, membership of the EEC has had an exasperating effect.

[Huguenot]

I have rarely heard anything so silly - calling a massive increase of exports to Europe as 'exasperating' is extraordinary!

We don't export to Asia so much because we no long have an Empire!! We export more to Europe because we're not at war with them.

Would you prefer we tried to continue living in 1850 and we were all bankrupt?

[Huguenot]

d_c I love your "Fair day's pay for a fair day's work" - stratight out of the political chants handbook!

Of course, that's exactly what regional weighting is all about - fairness.

Nurse A gets a 20k salary in Preston and has a three bedroom house. Nurse B gets a 20k salary in London and gets a 10 square metre bedroom and a shared kitchen in sheltered accommodation.

What's fair about that?

[taper]

They do exactly the same work and the local housing Market shouldn't be a factor in their remuneration?

Stick to recruitment and retention: that's where the argument is.

[Huguenot]

Recruitment and retention are employment concepts based on addressing the needs and contributions of the individuals.

Unions don't believe in this - they believe in collective bargaining and cookie cutter employees.

Unions can't accept that an individual can be rewarded for talent and hard work - because it assumes that someone else can be paid less if they have less talent and work less hard.

[taper]

Unions believe in collective bargaining. Yes they do.

[Marmora Man]

Unions believe in collective bargaining. Yes they do.

And they are wrong as this, inevitably, means an inequitable distribution of lifestyle.

Two typical "squeezed middle" families that work in the public sector and benefiting, as you would no doubt argue, from collective bargaining and national salary banding, let's say a schoolteacher and a nurse, will have dramatically different lifestyles and choices depending upon where they actually live and work.

In Newcastle, Liverpool, Glasgow, Cornwall, and other similar areas they can afford a pleasant house, probably run two cars, have a nice holiday every year and treat their children well at Christmas.

The same couple, on the same income, living in Guildford, London, St Albans, Oxford or Cambridge will struggle to raise enough to buy a modest home, maybe run two bicycles, take a camping holiday every other year and worry whether they can afford to buy their children Christmas presents except at a charity shop.

Neither couple would be classed as poor - bout relative to their neighbours the couple in the Guilford et al will feel poorer and the couple in Newcastle et all will be envied by their neighbours for their comfortable lifestyle.

So - in today's economic climate do you pay the Guildford couple more - or the Newcastle couple less?

I'd argue for the latter - as at present in Newcastle, Liverpool and similar places to work in the public sector is to have won a small lottery.

High public salaries & wages disincentivise those that might otherwise work in the private sector and making it difficult for private sector employers to compete for good staff and thus reluctant to invest in the area without a heavy tax payer subsidy. Adjusting public sector wages to local comparators should, in the long run, allow for greater private sector investment in the "deprived" areas - reducing unemployment and reliance upon public sector largesse.

In the long run also it would reduce the disparity between the different areas - so that gradually regional pay levels would equalise or become much closer.

[nashoi]

Huguenot did you read the attatchment? It's not saying the EU has not been an economic benefit as a whole but it has had an effect on economic geography.

[taper]

"as you would no doubt argue.."

Sigh

"In Newcastle, Liverpool, Glasgow, Cornwall, and other similar areas they can afford a mock Georgian mansion in the Barnard Castle/the Wirral/Rock, probably run two high performance cars with fog lamps, have a Caribbean holiday every year with free booze and fags and treat their children like the spoilt little princes they undoubtedly are at Christmas. The same couple, on the same income, living in Guildford, London, St Albans, Oxford or Cambridge will live in a traveller encampment on the Essex Marches, walk ten miles each day in worn out sneakers, take a camping holiday every other year surrounded by poor private sector workers from the North and sell their children to a charity shop at Christmas. "

Fixed.

[Jeremy]

It's not just the public sector. The difference in private sector pay often does not reflect regional living expenses either - including skilled jobs which are not in competition with the public sector.

[Marmora Man]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> It's not just the public sector. The difference in

> private sector pay often does not reflect regional

> living expenses either - including skilled jobs

> which are not in competition with the public

> sector.

Some examples to back up this assertion would be helpful.