Sleep

[Earl Aelfheah]

Ok, I know there are umpteen threads on this already, but i. We'd some advice. My 7 month old will not sleep at night. She will cry for hours (up to 9 or 10), with our going in to comfort her every 30 mins or so. She seems incapable of learning to put herself back down. From everyone I've spoken to, the kind of crying down which we've been doing for sometime now, is the last resort when all else fails, so what else is there?

[Fuschia]

Sleep with her?

[hellosailor]

If she is crying for that long and is not consolable could there be another problem like reflux or lactose intolerance that is causing her pain at night?

I'm sure you've already thought of that but I think if she's crying for 9 or 10 hours at night then there could well be something causing her discomfort rather than it just being that she is not able to self settle?

[womanofdulwich]

respect that you have struggled through 9-10 hours of crying...I am assuming you live in a detached house!!

maybe think about how she has slept before - what has set the sleep off? have you just let her drift off and then put her down or have you been "putting her down"? if you have never " put her down" for the set naps, then its REALLY HARD. I think its a good idea to spend more time in the nursery with her- playing there etc- making it a comfortable place. I am sure you will lots of advice on this forum.

[Sanne Panne]

What is your current bedtime routine?

I would probably put all the tricks out: feed her, rock her to sleep, give her a dummy, no 4 dummies, bring her to bed later, lie down with her till she's fast asleep. I always had "plans" but ended up going with the flow and never got stuck in unsustainable patterns and have two great sleepers in spite of it all.

[jennyh]

When you say 'crying down' are you leaving her to cry? If so for how long will she cry for without your intervention?

Mine learnt to go to sleep on her own but then regressed various times and became keen on crying for us to go in, as soon as we did she would smile and laugh. Obviously i love giving her cuddles and attention but not throughout the night when I wanted to teach her it is sleepy time! Perhaps if you are going in every 30 minutes you are stimulating her? Like Hellosailor says, if she is crying hysterically or crying for a long periods then it would seem there might be another cause. presumably you have looked at teething/wind etc as possible reasons?

[sophiechristophy]

I am shocked that you would leave a baby crying for stretches of 30 minutes. I wouldn't leave my baby crying in her cot, certainly not for more than 5 minutes - and she is 18 months, if the baby is crying then she has a need that is not being met.

[Smiler]

30 mins is surely too long to leave a 7mo to cry at a time?

[jennyh]

I think its important to remember not to judge on this forum and to consider someone's elses way of doing things different to your way but not necessarily the wrong way. I understand that leaving a baby to cry goes against all natural instincts but once you have looked into the possible needs and ruled them out some consider it worthwhile to look at other options. I love my daughter more than anything and she always comes first, part of my considered approach has been to choose appropriate times to teach her things. One of these things is that she can feel safe, secure and happy on her own whether that is playing or sleeping,I consider that if she is happy in this environment she will grow up to be a child who knows she is loved and knows she can be comforted if she feels unsafe but is also content by herself as there will be times she is!

Obviously if she needed comfort and love at night then i would give it to her, if however she was simply struggling to drift back off to sleep (as is the case frequently) I would rather give her the chance to try rather than go to her and have her accustomed to needing me so desperately, there will be times when i am not there and how equally distressing for her to be waiting for me and for me not to come.

Obviously people approach things differently. I havent actually taken the same approach as rahrahrah but I wouldnt say it is wrong or that I was shocked, everyone does what they see fit. I would be interested in hearing at what age people teach things like self soothing or feeling secure and comfortable by oneself?

[littleEDfamily]

I think there is a very good chance that your baby now has very negative associations with nighttime in her cot. Once you have fully investigated the possible physical causes, I would suggest you try a whole new nighttime routine - for instance putting her in your room in a different cot, considering co-sleeping, rocking her to sleep etc...you can always reintroduce her cot in a separate room when the negative association has been broken (and when you are getting more sleep and have the strength to try it again). At around 7 months I had resorted to sleeping with my baby with her basically attached to me. It was exhausting and perhaps not ideal, but at least we all got some sleep. She now (17 months) sleeps very well in her own cot and has done for months.

If what you are doing is not working, bin it and give the suggestions above a crack (or if you can afford it, enlist the services of a sleep professional).

Good luck (you must be totally knackered and having difficulty thinking straight).

[alieh]

Wow, that sounds very difficult. We have dealt with some crying over a few nights when trying to break a habit like dummy, etc. but any more than that and I think there is likely something else going on.

Basic question, but are you feeding at night? I know many people don't like to go back to nightfeeding if baby had previously dropped all feeds (not sure if that is your situation....mine never dropped any feeds of their own accord so I never had this issue myself!) but I do think it would be very common for a 7 month old to not be able to go all night without a feed.

In my opinion, any kind of sleep training will not work with a baby that is hungry or in pain/discomfort.

I agree that you may want to change tack, and try to rebuild trust and get some sleep for both of you any way you can (feeding, rocking, co-sleeping...whatever works in your case).

[sophiechristophy]

JennyH = I think it is important not to normalise leaving a small baby alone in a cot crying for extended stretches of time.

[jennyh]

littleEDfamily Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think there is a very good chance that your baby

> now has very negative associations with nighttime

> in her cot. Once you have fully investigated the

> possible physical causes, I would suggest you try

> a whole new nighttime routine - for instance

> putting her in your room in a different cot,

> considering co-sleeping, rocking her to sleep

> etc...you can always reintroduce her cot in a

> separate room when the negative association has

> been broken (and when you are getting more sleep

> and have the strength to try it again).

>

All very logical advice and makes a lot of sense. Another friend of mine is in the process of going from co-sleeping to cot sleeping and it is all about breaking it down into stages as you have said. i dont think that anyone is trying to normalise leaving a small baby to cry, after all the original poster is trying to find helpful advice and a solution so she doesn't have to do this...

[Fuschia]

I think the baby mags and books and fashion for 'sleep training' perhaps obscures what I'd normal behaviour in a human infant, the need to be close to the mother, especially at night

Hopefully, trying that for a while will helP peace to return

I

On phone so can't read back but someone was talking sbout the need to teach a baby to be alone

That's where the problem

Lies I think

We are social creatures

We can't 'teach' babies any different ...

[sophiechristophy]

I agree Fuschia.

[jennyh]

It was me who said that and I do stand by it, not always at a young age of course but I do still think its important. All I know is that my daughter is happily settled at nursery, is happy with other adults and children, is happy to play with others or on her own and is happy generally. Like most things you need a balance, to feel loved by your cuddly parents and to equally feel happy and free when on your own.

I agree that there are ways of doing this and leaving a distressed young baby who needs her mother/father isnt always right but I still think its important at some point to encourage this sense of security. Of course I do not deny her love and affection, my maternal instinct is fiercly strong and every day make sure she laughs and is smothered with kisses but I do consider it my job to teach her things to equip her to engage with the modern world as she grows up, perhaps I have taken this approach earlier than some.

Anyway, going off topic. I hope that you find some ideas that are useful rahrahrah as I am sure there are many things you can try. Good luck!!

[mrs f]

I left my 3 month old baby to cry it out & it took upto an hour at a time. Horrid yes but he now goes to sleep without a wimper & only wakes at night if there is something wrong

Evil but well rested mother here !-)

I think if you ask your grandmothers what they did they will say they left their children to cry... Mine says it was the most valuable advice she was ever given.... And in many ways I agree. As a good forumite friend said to me in the early days 'no baby ever died of crying'

Don't hate me for it, we are all different & I would never frown upon you for having a 7 month old baby who wakes at night because you co sleep

[mrs f]

Sorry to the op for not offering advice but don't like this mummy superiority... We all just do what we feel best to get through

[new mother]

God that is awful Rahrahrah. You must be shattered. Two questions - did the little one ever sleep? Is is this a new thing? And is she on good quantities of solids?

Assume you have had all sorts of medical investigations done to eliminate her being in pain when lying down for some reason?

God poor you. :-(

[snowboarder]

Teaching/helping a baby to self soothe is really hard - of course they naturally want their mummy - but I think there does come a point when you as a parent might choose to change things. And this may be at 1m or 3yrs - it is very personal.

I had no idea about self soothing with baby 1 - so I responded to him immediately at night and fed/rocked to sleep until he was 11m. Then I was practically crazy from lack of sleep, as was he, and we used a type of controlled crying - for us simply breaking the association of milk/sleep took 1 night and 1.5hrs crying and he has slept well ever since. Lucky us. I hated that one night though and naps were tough for some time so was really determined to try a gentler approach with baby 2. For the first 7m he slept with me at night and I fed him to sleep as baby 1, and loved the closeness but not the waking throughout the evening when I wasn't there. But for naps I would put him in his bednest/pram when he was tired and sit and stroke his tummy until he fell asleep. And I did this every single day with dogged consistency!! Sometimes he wasn't too impressed but I always stayed with him until he was asleep and had got there by himself. He found his thumb at 3m and that helped. At 7m he got too big for his bednest and I didn't want to cosleep properly full time - I am a rubbish sleeper and a little warm wriggler wasn't helping!! We moved him to his cot and I fed him at bedtime as normal, but didn't let him fall asleep feeding (not easy!) - and then put him in his cot and sat with him as for naps....overall he seemed to 'get it' - he does wake sometimes and I go to him if he is crying, not if he is just moaning. I basically give him a hug and sit with him stroking him until he falls asleep...he does sometimes cry - I don't leave him, but also I don't feed/rock/use any prop other than reassure him I'm there.

Sorry - long ramble, but that's just an account of how I tried/am trying to gently teach my baby (now 9m) to sleep after a fairly tough experience with my first son. I haven't fed him at night now (apart from a couple of cold/teething occasions) since we moved him, but he is fairly sturdy.

Good luck rahrah - it is awful.....

oh - ps - with baby 1 we did use help of a sleep nanny...

Edited to say he didn't cry for 1.5 hrs solid - I did go in and comfort etc....

[canadianlisa]

I want to add my experience as I can sympathise with this. My daughter who is now 2 went through a difficult sleep phase from about 6 months onwards. We were as sure as we could be that she had no medical problems, by 7-8 months she was eating well but she was still waking up many, many times throughout the night crying. She was in her own room not with us which was the choice that worked best for my family.

When she was 8-9 months we consulted a sleep trainer as it was all getting to be too much and something had to give. I was fighting with my partner and friends, crying a lot and starting to feel quite angry and depressed and resentful towards my daughter at times.

We were also going on an extended family holiday very soon and knew something had to give.

Basically we paid ?300 for a woman to come and help us make a plan. This did involve controlled crying but with lots of checking in. The longest that she cried without comforting at a stretch was 14 minutes. We basically had 3 nights over a weekend of very hard work and then she learned to self soothe and slept through. We would not have had the confidence to do this without some professional help but that being said it was not rocket science and you could do the research yourself and make a plan. It was very important to stick with it and to do it at a time when you were prepared and your child was well and comfortable. We also needed to do it in a tag team approach where we took turns going in. We also had lots of follow up support via the phone and email from the sleep trainer.

Since we did this we have of course had difficult nights but in the main my girl loves her bed, sleeps very well and we are all well rested. I want to be very clear that I needed something to change to continue being a decent mother, partner and person generally- sleep deprivation is a killer. Also as others have said you need to do what is best for you and your family.

I have tons of books on sleep problems so PM me if you want to borrow any or talk more. Best of luck with whatever way you choose to tackle it.

[MichelleT]

Hi Rahrahrah, that sounds terrible, I can't imagine how frazzled you must feel. Assuming you have had your baby checked for any medical conditions, as someone said above, might I suggest the 'No Cry Sleep Solution' by Elizabeth Pantley. Its a gentle way of helping babies sleep through the night, with no controlled crying/leaving to cry. Co-sleeping (safely) or bringing the baby into your room/sleeping in her room? Babies need company, its not just about their physical needs.

To the poster who said no baby ever died from crying, perhaps not, but there is some pretty damning research on leaving babies to cry, raised cortisol levels, and the consequences thereof... We have never left our son to cry, though we do leave him awake in his cot, but he is now 17 months old and chats away for a while before drifting off. At seven months I was still rocking him to sleep.

[alice32]

I would second the Elizabeth Pantley book. Lots of useful ideas and suggestions, though no quick fixes - more of a gradual approach to getting your baby to be able to sleep without your help.

Also, you don't mention whether or not your baby is still feeding at night. Even if she/he is eating solids well in the day, she may still be hungry at night - in which case, I'd suggest any sleep training or controlled crying will be futile (not to mention distressing for him/her). Both my children still needed to feed in the night at this age, despite being good solid eaters by day.

Best of luck with it all.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Hear, hear SB and Mrs F.

Ladies; the OP came to the forum for advice, not judgment. Reading some of the judgmental things that were written here made ME upset, and it's not even my baby we're talking about, so imagine how rahrahrah feels!

[MichelleT]

Ruth, apologies if I upset you or anyone, I get just as upset reading about babies crying alone in their cots...