Jump to content

Recommended Posts

This text is shaping up to be the earliest authenticated historical reference to East Dulwich.


John K


Bermondsey Abbey Chronicle SA 1245


Et hoc anno facta est concordia inter priorem de Bermundeseye et priorissam de Halywell, de decimis in Est Dilewiche, scilicet quod dicti prior et conventus de Bermundeseye percipient omnes decimas maiores provenientes de terris, quas de bosco vel de pastura in agriculturam dicte moniales converterint in parochia de Cambyrwelle

Link to comment
https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/20749-when-was-east-dulwich-1245-ad/
Share on other sites

Google translate says;


And this year there was a harmony between the first and of the prioress of Bermundeseye Halywell, is by the tithes in the Dilewiche, namely, that the said prior and receive all the tithes of the major meetings concerning Bermundeseye arising out of the countries, of which the wood or in the pasture of the said nuns turn agriculture in the parish of Cambyrwelle

Putting some basic Latin knowledge and some human thought alongside the translation, I'd go for


And in this year there was an agreement between the prior of Bermondsey and the Prioress of Halywell about the tithes in East Dulwich. That the Prior and convent of Bermondsey will receive all the tithes arising out of the woods, pasture and the nuns' agricultural labour in the parish of Camberwell.

Are there any forumites as old as I am who took part in the Dilwihs/Dulwich millenium parade in 1967? I was riding on the back of a float proudly wearing my Brownie uniform and waving a homemade Union Jack if I remember correctly!! Can't remember the whole parade route but I know we went through Dulwich Park.

major or greater tithe (wheat, etc) as opposed to minor (eg, hazlenuts).


Yes, it's worth remembering that we are not talking about a money economy here - hence tithe barns being places where the tithe (in produce) was stored.


It's also worth remebering that at this time Anglo-Saxon (actually by now Middle English) words were being included in Latin texts. Legal texts mix French with English as well ('il jecte un graund brickbat' being quite a famous one). Hence 'Est' for East (as opposed to 'it is') is quite possible.


Google translate works in classical latin - medieval latin (which anyway often has local variants) is beyond it. The 50 year old Revised Medieval Word List I have confirms Decima Maior as 'great tithe'.

jim_the_chin and Penguin68:


"East" for "Est" is secure.


The clincher is the 1820 Charity Commissioners' report on Battersea Parish.


GSJ57:


I was there. The parade ended in Belair Park. The tableaux were done lakeside.


It's taken me nearly 50 years to realise that Bill Darby, my one time latin master, was having a huge joke on the people of Dulwich Village.


John K

Janet Nelson has kindly provided an accurate translation.


Her credentials for this are here.


John K




In this year an agreement was made between the Prior of Bermondsey and the Prioress of Holywell concerning the tithes in East Dulwich, namely, that the said prior and community of Bermondsey should take all the greater tithes coming from the lands which the said nuns had converted from woodland or pasture into ploughed land in the parish of Camberwell.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • The Stray Cat Club is in urgent need of local volunteers & foster homes across East Dulwich & surrounding areas. With rescue pleas coming in daily, the demand is rising - especially for vulnerable kittens, abandoned pets & overlooked strays in need of safety, warmth & care.   Whether you can offer: - A safe, temporary home (even short-term or kitten-specific) - Transport help (vet runs, collections, drop-offs) - Admin support, fundraising or social media help - Raising Awareness through educating the general public. ... you can make a real difference. Fostering is fully supported - all food, litter & veterinary care is provided. You don't need a garden, just a quiet space, a kind heart & commitment. Every safe space created means another cat pulled from danger. If you've been waiting for a sign - this is it! Please reach out via The Stray Cat Club official website https://straycatclub.org.uk/ & follow on Instagram @thestraycatclub (https://www.instagram.com/thestraycatclub/) & Please, please continue to spread the importance of spaying, neutering & microchipping your cats. Thank you.
    • Absolutely agree , the pool is in a disgusting state at the moment. I’ve also noticed how dirty it’s been lately, especially around the edges and in the changing rooms. It’s honestly at the point where it feels unhygienic, and I wouldn’t be surprised if people got sick from swimming in it. You’ve done the right thing by reporting it  hopefully if more of us raise concerns , they’ll take it seriously. Happy to add my voice to any formal complaint or petition if that helps. Thanks for speaking up — you’re definitely not alone!  
    • Let's see if we can get a key so the notice board can actually be updated by someone who cares and has time (thank you Jellybeanz, if you want to do that, and if Sue can get a key), or we can have a group of key holders and content managers. It's not hard is it. There's not really any point having one if it doesn't have information
    • I  got a take away yesterday evening.  I stupidly ordered a side as well as  a bowl.  I have a hefty appetite but I had leftovers for breakfast and still some for lunch-and delicious.
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...