Racist Bigot spouting bile on tram

[DJKillaQueen]

She pleaded not guilty this afternoon and was refused bail, which I'm guessing is because psychiatric reports are pending. It appears she has mental health problems - and has suffered with depression since her late teens. No mention of alcohol or drugs though.

[ianr]

> She pleaded not guilty this afternoon and was refused bail

"Earlier, an administrative error led to the defendant entering a not guilty plea, but the court file was later amended to show she has not yet pleaded." http://www.london24.com/news/croydon_tram_racist_rant_accused_emma_west_remanded_in_custody_1_1146561 If there's no further bail application, she'll have spent five weeks in prison before the next hearing.

[DJKillaQueen]

Interestingly that article states 'refused bail for her own safety'.

I do feel that this woman has been trialed by media, without the full facts being known.

[El Pibe]

'refused bail for her own safety' This was apparently because she'd received threats.

I do wonder about the level of intellect of soeone who threatens others because of their hateful opinions. At the very least a total lack of irony is discernible.

It is looking increasingly like she has mental health issues, perhaps she had one tipple too many on some powerful anti-depression medication. Whatever it looks like help is what she needs rather than a custodial sentence, and I'm sure that's what'll ultimately happen and will be revealed on a tiny paragraph on p46 of a newspaper if it does.

None of which detracts from the fact that she has some pretty bilious views about race and immigration. I can get as drunk as a skunk, i won't start giving anyone of any ilk what for or go tossing my orb about, I usually just get a kebab then pass out a the bottom of the stairs at home.

[KidKruger]

You make it as far as the stairs ?

True Class.

[Parkdrive]

ibilly99 Wrote:

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> She was released from a psychiatric hospital 2

> days before .....

So where is the little lad she was seen with?

[Jah Lush]

I'd assume with next of kin.

[Annette Curtain]

That Woman might be "mentally ill" indeed.

However, she's deemed fit to have a child, walk the streets & ride the public transport system.

That she's disinhibited enough to spout off (whether medicated or not) is her own choice. She was fit enough and with it enough not to walk under a tram but to get on it and take a seat. She now needs locking up for her own safety.

There's an interesting article in the Guardian supplement today, on the outpourings, nastiness & scorn of people in Britain today.

David Lammies book "Out of the Ashes" also points to the hyper-inflated sense of entitlement exhibited by some.

If you've got children in school you see a raft of parents like this, who don't work, won't work ,yet spend more time on the phone than a double-glazing sales man. Those same parents look and act much like their elder children. It's only the bags under their eyes that set them apart.

"They make my foot itch" I can tell you.

NETTE

[El Pibe]

Gosh, from my lurking on here ms curtain, I've found you to be one of the more enlightened posters, even if you try to hide the fact under your jesters hat.

What a curiously and uncharacteristically uncharitable post.

-1 dislike

Dissappointed from Dulwich.

[*Bob*]

It's tiring being enlightened all the time though.

Sometimes you just need to let off steam and call a munter a munter.

[ianr]

> Whatever it looks like help is what she needs rather than a custodial sentence, and I'm sure that's what'll

> ultimately happen and will be revealed on a tiny paragraph on p46 of a newspaper if it does.

If the 2 December newspaper report cited on page 5 by ibilly 99 is accurate, that's more likely what would have happened had it not been for the publishing of the video.

[BB100]

Annette Curtain Wrote:

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> That Woman might be "mentally ill" indeed.

>

> However, she's deemed fit to have a child, walk

> the streets & ride the public transport system.

Actually I have a friend with mental health problems who appears perfectly sane most of the time but on many occasions has been known to verbally abuse and spit at strangers and damage property when she is on the street. She has pulled bits off people's cars, spat at them in shopping centres and stolen neighbour's letters. She has also been arrested a few times and her family only found out what she was doing when a neighbour videoed her, otherwise they would not have believed it.She has been sectioned a number of times by request of her family but the mental health unit just discharge her a few weeks later. I have another friend who has two children and is regularly sectioned whilst she 'changes personality' and he children are still living with her. The point is that those even with antisocial mental health problems are deemed quite capable of doing anything we can do so I wouldn't entirely discount it.

[DJKillaQueen]

I have to back you up there BB100. Some anti-depressants don't work for some patients and can produce aggressive side effects and make the symptoms worse. There are many degrees and forms of clinical depression and a multitude of chemical and otherwise treatments, which sometimes take consultants time to get right (and sometimes they never find a right treatment).

Another thing to understand is that many people with depressive illnesses hide them (because of the attitude to mental health that many people in this country have) and it isn't until they reach a crisis point that they finally get help. Look at Gary Speed for example. Depression is a serious illness. It can render normally sane, organised and level headed people into a state that of being that is completely out of character. In some that may be agressive behaviour. In others it is reclusivity and absolute fear. And stress is a common trigger.

We don't know what kind of mental health issues are specific to this woman, what kind of treatment she was having etc. She does have a husband (so we might assume he jointly cares for the child). And we still don't know what precipitated the outburst. Did she really just sit on a tram and start ranting without any kind of trigger?

The content of her rant is one thing....and should rightly be criticised.

But any ongoing battle she has with depression or any other mental health issue should be taken equally seriously too and considered.

[maxxi]

El Pibe Wrote:

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> ... I can get as drunk as a skunk, i

> won't start giving anyone of any ilk what for or

> go tossing my orb about, I usually just get a

> kebab then pass out a the bottom of the stairs at

> home.

That's all you get on a Friday night down the Lane these days, streets running with Ilk and Orbs flying everywhere. Community Policing?!? Pah!

[Parkdrive]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> But any ongoing battle she has with depression or

> any other mental health issue should be taken

> equally seriously too and considered.

As should the welfare of the child who may be in jeopardy if this person is unable to control herself in public, yes?

[acm]

.

[DJKillaQueen]

As should the welfare of the child who may be in jeopardy if this person is unable to control herself in public, yes?

No....because that is a premise for removing every child whose parent ever has a row, get's drunk, loses their temper or ever says anything that can be considered offensive....

My father often used racist language. Should I have been taken away from my parents for that? Absolute nonsense. And I didn't turn out to share his language in either child or adulthood either.

[Annette Curtain]

acm Wrote:

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> She had a child, what, 6 - 7 years ago?

The child is 4 I believe.

[Jeremy]

I don't really understand why people are making up imaginary scenarios to defend what this woman did.

Besides, I'm sure she has legal defence who will determine pretty quickly if this behaviour is a result of mental illness.

[Parkdrive]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> > As should the welfare of the child who may be in

> jeopardy if this person is unable to control

> herself in public, yes?

>

> No....because that is a premise for removing every

> child whose parent ever has a row, get's drunk,

> loses their temper or ever says anything that can

> be considered offensive....

>

> My father often used racist language. Should I

> have been taken away from my parents for that?

> Absolute nonsense. And I didn't turn out to share

> his language in either child or adulthood either.

So you don't care about the welfare of the child? I'm disguted with that response. No wonder we have scenarios such as baby P. God help us all.

[Huguenot]

It's big jump from DJKQ saying something isn't practical to suggesting she doesn't care about the welfare of a child.

[sheilarose]

Park Drive, you are being idiotic. No-one said they didn't care about the welfare of the child. You have absolutely no idea about how this child is cared for on a day-to-day basis and equally you seem to be completely ignorant of the terrible damage that can be done to young children by disrupting their attachment to their primary carer and exposing them to the uncertainty and trauma of life in care. Of course, not all children can live with their parents, but this is not a decision that can be made on the basis of one out-of-control rant. The woman's racist behaviour is disgusting, of course it is, but lots of people do and say disgusting things (including you, in my opinion, vis a vis your attitude towards foster carers earlier in this thread). This does not necessarily affect their ability to be adequate parents and nor does it turn them into the monsters who killed Baby P.

[Ridgley]

I hope this is not a trend now for anyone else to jump on the band wagon, the BNP must be loving this.

[Parkdrive]

sheilarose Wrote:

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> Park Drive, you are being idiotic. No-one said

> they didn't care about the welfare of the child.

> You have absolutely no idea about how this child

> is cared for on a day-to-day basis and equally you

> seem to be completely ignorant of the terrible

> damage that can be done to young children by

> disrupting their attachment to their primary carer

> and exposing them to the uncertainty and trauma of

> life in care. Of course, not all children can live

> with their parents, but this is not a decision

> that can be made on the basis of one

> out-of-control rant. The woman's racist behaviour

> is disgusting, of course it is, but lots of people

> do and say disgusting things (including you, in my

> opinion, vis a vis your attitude towards foster

> carers earlier in this thread). This does not

> necessarily affect their ability to be adequate

> parents and nor does it turn them into the

> monsters who killed Baby P.

I'm being idiotic? A person that apparently has mental health issues, who is a potential danger to herself and to those in her care and the public, evidently has drink/drug misuse issues is seen by many on here as an ok person to bring up a child. Unbelievable. But I'm idiotic. Please. "Does not necessarily affect there abiilty to be an adequeste parent", nor is it a ringing endorsement.

[Undisputedtruth]

I think the whole incident has been blown out of proportion and surprised it has led to her loss of liberty. Yes, her views were racist. But how harmful is this woman to society? She didn't go beyond calling someone Black, Indian or Polish. Funnily enough I was told by a West Indian man in Dulwich to go back to my own country even though I was born in London and both of my parents are West Indian too.

I would rather have resources put in to eliminate bile organisations such as the BNP & English Defence League.