Dr Gupta

[Pickle]

I've been with DMC for years, and think it provides a service second to none in the area. Certainly no evidence of an Indian call centre when I ring to make appointments, so not sure where you get that info from Tarot?

I don't understand why a doctor making money is such a bad thing - from accounts I have read he's not cheating the system in any way. They train for years, work hard, and deserve every penny they get. No different to dentists who do a mixture of NHS and private work.

[Jeremy]

pipsky2008 Wrote:

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> A 40 odd year career. 2,000,000 divided by 40 = ?50,000 PA. That is peanuts

So on average, he has managed to save/accrue 50k a year, after all of his living costs. That is not peanuts, that is highly succesful. Again... a very strange thing to say. You must live in a different world to most of us.

[Pickle]

Who's to say he doesn't have a ?1,800,000 mortgage? ;-)

[ClareC]

And unless the house was purchased fairly recently there will be capital increase.

Let's face it, ?2million in London does NOT buy a mansion!

There are plenty of "normal" income families with houses of that value in London.

[Otta]

A lot of houses in ED would fetch half a mil, and they are certainly not mansions.

[katie1997]

Tarot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ravi Gupta Jnr, has been with the practice since

> 1993.

> If making an appointment by telephone via an

> Indian exchange is the way to go to get rich at

> the expense of patients that must be ok then by

> E,D standards.

Where do they use those then?

Certainly not at DMC on Crystal Palace Road that's for sure. Excellent service too in my experience.

[srisky]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> pipsky2008 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > A 40 odd year career. 2,000,000 divided by 40 =

> ?50,000 PA. That is peanuts

>

> So on average, he has managed to save/accrue 50k a

> year, after all of his living costs. That is not

> peanuts, that is highly succesful. Again... a very

> strange thing to say. You must live in a different

> world to most of us.

In absolute terms ?50k per annum is a good amount of money but you have to look into the training/hours/responsibility etc of the profession to determine whether the pay is peanuts or not.

Or put more simply, you could accrue the ?50k by working crazy hours at a rate of ?5/h or work far fewer hours at the rate of ?50/h.

I'm not saying they should earn more or less, just that looking at figures in absolute terms is not a useful way to compare value.

The same is true of ?2m house - it may be worth ?2m now but what was it worth when they bought it, when was it bought (i.e over how long has it appreciated in value), have they renovated it?

Perhaps they inherited some money; perhaps they invested well over the years; perhaps they sacrificed expensive holidays, ski trips, Fri nights in the boozer - I bet over a 40y period these things add up to a significant amount of money that they could put towards the home.

The point is, who knows?? Provided the practice is run ethically, the patients are provided with optimal care and the money is earnt legally then it's difficult to pass judgement on the above.

[srisky]

Tarot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ravi Gupta Jnr, has been with the practice since

> 1993.

> If making an appointment by telephone via an

> Indian exchange is the way to go to get rich at

> the expense of patients that must be ok then by

> E,D standards.

Er, are you sure you have the right number??

I have called them several times in the last couple of months and have always spoken to someone who is courteous and helpful. If that's in India then so be it. FWIW, they had 'British' accents - may be they were ex-pats ;-)

[ibilly99]

There's probably a bigger issue here of how New Labour pumped up the NHS with borrowed cash and allowed savvy health officials to become sucessfull businesses - but good luck to Dr Gupta at least he is bringing healing to the nation unlike the banks which bring usury and misery.

[Damian H]

Tarot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ravi Gupta Jnr, has been with the practice since

> 1993.

> If making an appointment by telephone via an

> Indian exchange is the way to go to get rich at

> the expense of patients that must be ok then by

> E,D standards.

The key term in this post, in my humble opinion, is "at the expense of patients". WHether the calls are taken locally by a recognisably 'British person' (please note apostrophes before accusing me of racist stereotypes) or locally by someone with an Indian accent or by a call centre in India - has Tarot any evidence at all that the telephone service offered compromises patient care or is "at the expense of patients"?

If I rang my GP (and I am not with DMC) and was able to swiftly and efficiently make an appointment that was accurate and matched what was in the practice diary when I turned up I wouldn't care if the call had been routed via the moon!

From the OP it seems to me this thread is based upon financial jealousy and very little else although there have been attempts to disguise that under the auspices of a concern for patient welfare - without any evidence being offered that patient welfare has been affected in the least. On the contrary everyone with the practice seems to speak highly of the service they have received.

[ClareC]

Damian H Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Tarot Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Ravi Gupta Jnr, has been with the practice

> since

> > 1993.

> > If making an appointment by telephone via an

> > Indian exchange is the way to go to get rich at

> > the expense of patients that must be ok then by

> > E,D standards.

>

>

> The key term in this post, in my humble opinion,

> is "at the expense of patients". WHether the

> calls are taken locally by a recognisably 'British

> person' (please note apostrophes before accusing

> me of racist stereotypes) or locally by someone

> with an Indian accent or by a call centre in India

> - has Tarot any evidence at all that the telephone

> service offered compromises patient care or is "at

> the expense of patients"?

>

> If I rang my GP (and I am not with DMC) and was

> able to swiftly and efficiently make an

> appointment that was accurate and matched what was

> in the practice diary when I turned up I wouldn't

> care if the call had been routed via the moon!

>

> From the OP it seems to me this thread is based

> upon financial jealousy and very little else

> although there have been attempts to disguise that

> under the auspices of a concern for patient

> welfare - without any evidence being offered that

> patient welfare has been affected in the least.

> On the contrary everyone with the practice seems

> to speak highly of the service they have received.

Agreed!

[Monkey]

As per my preivous post he did not accrue ?2m over a 40-year-career. The DMC company made a profit of ?1.8m last year alone.

[srisky]

Monkey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As per my preivous post he did not accrue ?2m over

> a 40-year-career. The DMC company made a profit of

> ?1.8m last year alone.

I think the ?2m over 40yr discussion arose from the original post, which mentioned the ?2m mansion.

I don't know how the ?1.8m profit compares to other similar sized practices or whether in business terms that's a large profit or not.

[StraferJack]

This thread is just weird

Good luck to the doctor in question but any thread in the ED specific section which is titled with a single person's name but purports to be about a medical centre and funds, and which is started by a poster with a track record on people from other countries shouldn't be entertained in the first place

in my view, the OP should have had a ticking off and the thread moved/closed. Would Tarot have started a thread called Dr Smith all other factors being equal? Again, look at their track record and I would suggest not

[breadcrum45]

srisky Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Monkey Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > As per my preivous post he did not accrue ?2m

> over

> > a 40-year-career. The DMC company made a profit

> of

> > ?1.8m last year alone.

>

>

> I think the ?2m over 40yr discussion arose from

> the original post, which mentioned the ?2m

> mansion.

>

> I don't know how the ?1.8m profit compares to

> other similar sized practices or whether in

> business terms that's a large profit or not.

Not sure how it compares to others, but wouldn't say it was alot considering the website states the following:

DMC Healthcare operates the following GP practices:

DMC Crystal Palace Road

DMC Chadwick Road

DMC Silverlock, Rotherhithe

DMC Medway NHS Healthcare Centre, Gillingham

DMC Medway Walderslade GP surgery, Chatham

DMC Sheppey NHS Healthcare Centre, Sheerness

DMC Vicarage Lane, Stratford

I also seem to remember they had just taken over a surgery in Enfield & one in North London when I left.

?1.8m divided by 9 isn't a massive profit.

[srisky]

Thanks for the info, breadcrum45.

StraferJack, I'm not in the habit of checking the posting history of forumites (and maybe I should be), I just naively take them at face value and see how the thread pans out!

[gedwina]

I think that with the gradual privatization of the NHS this is a positive sign,

A good and well run practice making a modest profit and actually managed and owned by NHS trained staff who have an understanding of the complexities of healthcare, compare this to the southern cross debacle (not NHS, but a good example of how these things can go wrong), I know which one I prefer.

[the-e-dealer]

SO if you live in a Capatalist System you should do what? Not work? Give all your money to charity? Sleep at ST Pauls.

Good Luck to Dr. Gupta its a very good practice. If he had made ?100 Million I would start worrying aout how much of that came from the NHS.

[Shaggy]

The ?2 million over a career debate is bit of a blind alley. But so too is the ?1.8 million figure. All we know is that the Gupta brothers' personal assets grew by ?1.8 million pounds at last year end (which ain't bad). As they own the company the money is theirs, but it's not in their own bank accounts.

The brothers are joint managing directors. Presumably they take a salary for that, and presumably Dr Gupta takes a salary too for treating patients. In terms of whether ?1.8 million is a big profit or not: that question is simply meaningless. Many companies of that size will simply break even because the managing directors take the excess as salary. Others would prefer to keep cash in the business.

So in short, the business is in a very healthy state and so is the financial position of the brothers. Even after paying themselves there is a couple of mil left over. They might be awarding themselves salaries of squillions of pounds or, like Steve Jobs, getting paid a dollar a year because they work for the love of it.

However, as there is a couple of million quid sloshing about the coffers, if there are genuine patient complaints, then they can only be as a result of management as there isn't a funding shortage.

[tallulah71]

Can you even buy the Daily Mail in East Dulwich...?

[Tarot]

The D>M.C did use an Indian exchange to make an appointment. I personally found this out when I asked the man who couldnt speak English properly where he was based, to which he replied India,I went to see the receptioist at the time and she said that was a fact.I told her I didnt like the idea of paying for a call to India.

My phone bill confirmed it.

Since then they no longer use that method.

Nothing racist Stafersean.you still havent got over the fact I was not one of your X girlfriends having a crack at you

or Spangles whoever she was.

Go on tick me of you doughnut.

It wasnt me that done the article on Gupta it was the mail, they must be racist .

[Bellenden Belle]

Tarot Wrote:

--------------------------------

> It wasnt me that done the article on Gupta it was

> the mail, they must be racist .

Racist? What a shocking suggestion Tarot.

I think most people would settle for describing the Daily Mail as right wing, sexist and jingoistic.

[Otta]

I personally found

this out when I asked the man who

couldnt speak English properly where he

was based, to which he replied India

Did you ask him in his native tongue then?

[the-e-dealer]

@talkrot if THe DMC did use an Indian Call Centre you would not see India on your Bill OR be charged international rates.

Besides if the calls were billed as going via India anyone with International Call Barring would not be able to ring their GP. A situation which would not be tolerated. Did you Dream This? Have a Bang on The Head or Read it in the Daily Mail?

Or prove me wrong scan in the bill and post it here. Bet you Can't !

[Pickle]

Yes, I'd be interested to see proof. In the years I've been using DMC I've always rung a local 0208 number, and spoken to one of the staff that sit in the office behind the reception desk.