Cow's milk or formula from 12 months?

[HollieES]

Just wondering what people's experience is with milk when your baby reaches a year.

I'm debating whether to just give him whole cow's milk, or to give him Growing Up milk (formula).

He eats really well and has a good balanced diet, so I'm happy that he's getting all of his vitamins and minerals, therefore it's more a question of cost really...is it cheaper to buy gallons of whole milk or boxes of formula?

Also, am I meant to be giving him his milk in a cup/beaker at this age, or is he still okay having it from a bottle? He only has milk morning and night now - none in the day.

All advice gratefully received.

Thanks

Hollie

[Pickle]

I used cow's milk from 1 year with both of my children - works out cheaper and much easier than the "growing up" style formula products which I'm fairly sure are just a ploy to get you to continue spending money with their companies!

If your baby is getting a good balanced diet all the vitamins/minerals they add to the growing up milk shouldn't be necessary.

I also found on the few times I did use growing up milk (flights, generally) the kids wouldn't drink it!

Most people I know were still using bottles at 1 year - we used them up to around 2 years when they stopped having milk as a morning/nighttime drink. As long as you're careful about brushing teeth it's fine.

[ClareC]

My daughter went onto cows milk at 12 mths too. Like Pickle, I found the odd occasion I went to use the formula she wouldn't drink it. Although saying that it did take her a little while to get used to cows milk!

We went onto a beaker at about 15mths.

[HollieES]

Thanks ladies, very helpful x

[sophiechristophy]

If he is eating well and has a balanced diet, my advice would be to give both of them a swerve.

[hellosailor]

I'm interested in this too, how do you mean Sophie? Give neither cow's milk or formula? What would you give instead?

[sophiechristophy]

Well, I would ask the question of why you want to give either? If your baby is getting a well balanced diet from the solids that it is eating, why give either cows milk of formula? For a drink I would give water.

[hellosailor]

Is there a reason not to give milk though? why would you give it a swerve? do you feel there's a reason not to give milk over 1 year old? (not being argumentative by the way, genuinely interested as my daughter will be turning 1 in a couple of months and interested in differing opinions!)

[sophiechristophy]

Some cow's milk is ok as part of a balanced diet, but I would hesitate before giving it to my child in large quantities, i.e. regularly as a bottle feed. Everything that is nutritionally beneficial in milk, can be readily found in the rest of the diet. Milk has been well promoted as a health drink by the dairy board over the past 50 years, however our digestive system is not designed to drink milk from animals (other than ourselves), and in large quantities amongst other things it can cause irritation to the intestine, can make it harder for our bodies to absorb iron, and can cause allergic reactions which can including ear nose and throat problems. Milk is not a health drink, and human's are not designed to drink cow's milk.

[sophiechristophy]

Follow on milk is a highly processed cow's milk product, again, it offers nothing that can't be gained from a better source in a balanced diet. I would definitely avoid it, for many reasons, for one the first ingredient of follow on milk is vegetable oil, which is something that I wouldn't recommend in anyone's diet.

[littleEDfamily]

I agree with all of sophiechristophy's points on milk. But... there are lots of things we're not 'designed' to eat, but (the vast majority of us) have come to tolerate well and provide a source of certain nutrients (but I also do not think milk is the 'wonder' source of calcium we're brainwashed to think it is, bearing in mind the nations with the highest dairy consumption also have the highest rates of osteoporosis).

I do think formula for older babies is a total con and personally I prefer the idea of organic cow's milk. My daughter (17mo) has only ever drunk out of a cup and drinks mainly water, but also milk and (gasp) juice. I know people freak out about bottles for older babies, but I wish mine would take a bottle, as (rightly or wrongly), I think it's quite a nice cosy routine to have once or twice a day before sleeptime (and it would help me get her off the boob!)

Having said all that, to answer you question, I reckon you're fine giving cows milk in a bottle a couple of times a day at 12 months. I warm the milk by adding some hot water to it (lazy). Ditch the formula, I say. And aim to get her off a bottle by 2 years.

[jollybaby]

I think it is a little unrealistic to expect babies to stop having milk at 12 months. For many it's part of their bedtime routine. I suppose if you breastfeed beyond 12 months it would be easy 'to give cows' milk a swerve' but if not it's a little more tricky than that.

Holly - miss Jb went onto cows milk without any problem. I did buy a couple of the cow and gate toddler milks for travelling. They were disgusting and tasted really sweet and so now if we're going somewhere where milk storage may be a problem I just take a carton of standard formula.

Regarding cups etc - I'd suggest trying a beaker or cup sooner rather than later. I posted something on here a few weeks ago about this and initially had great success with getting her to drink out of a beaker. She then was poorly for a couple of weeks and was off her food and I reverted to the bottle. This may have been a big mistake as now at 14 months (and going through a determined/Resistant/tantrumming phase) she's really not keen on taking her milk from anything but a bottle. If I bring her a cup she swipes it away!

[jollybaby]

Goodness I just popped into a chemist and read the label on the cow and gate toddler milk - it contains vanilla flavouring- no wonder it smelt so sweet and foul.

[Fuschia]

I suppose with those milks they make them as cheaply as they can, and as sweet as they can get away with, to make them 'palatable'

[srisky]

Sophie, I'm intrigued!

I understand that cow's milk is designed for the digestive system of cows but it raises a few questions (genuine):

- does this extend to all dairy products? If so, what would the alternate source of calcium be? If not, why not?

- what foods are actually meant for the human digestive tract?

Or, are you saying that if solid dairy products are part of the child's balanced diet then there is no need to add a glass of milk in the morning and evening?

[sophiechristophy]

srisky - good questions.

1) Yes, it does extend to all dairy products, but some are easier for us to digest than others. Fermented milk products are the best, which are, for example, live natural yoghurt and something called kefir : http://nourishedkitchen.com/milk-kefir/

There is a very strong cultural belief that dairy products are the best food for calcium, however this is simply not the case, and when weighed up against the potential negative effects of eating a lot of dairy, there are much more beneficial sources of calcium to choose from. The calcium from these sources is also more easily absorbed by our bodies than from diary. I bet you have probably eaten many sources of calcium today, without even realising. Just a few examples of food containing calcium would include:

sweet potato, spinach, lemon, celery, broccoli, bananas, pineapple, avocado, oranges, green beans, asparagus, grapes, carrots, almonds, walnuts, hazelnuts, oats, brown rice, lentils, chickpeas, wholewheat flour... the list goes on and on!

2) This is a difficult question to answer briefly! The point with milk, is that it's function is as a first food for babies, whether that is a calf, kitten or human baby. No other animal species aside from humans consume milk after weaning. I would say that foods that can be hunted and gathered and fished are suitable for human digestion. Foods in their whole form, unprocessed, are best for us.

What I am saying is that dairy is absolutely not essential to the diet of an adult or child. Many many societies on this planet have no dairy in their diet at all. The main perceived reasons for eating dairy are calcium and protein, and there are better sources than dairy for both of these things. There is nothing wrong with having some dairy in the diet, as part of a balance with other foods, although certainly in moderation, and I would always suggest organic, as non-organic dairy cattle are given large quantities of hormones and other drugs that can pass on to their milk and are best avoided.

[sophiechristophy]

I should also make the point that breastmilk is still nutritionally beneficial to human babies after the introduction of solids, so if you can keep going after 1.

[bluesuperted]

Thanks for your informed responses Sophie - that list of calcium sources is fantastic! x

[srisky]

Yes, thanks Sophie.

Another question:

- how well is calcium, within the food items you've listed, absorbed? For example, how much sweet potato would you need to eat to absorb the same amount of calcium as from 200ml of cow's milk? I ask this, as spinach has good amount of iron and, in some cases more iron than some animal sources, but it's not absorbed nearly as well as iron from meat/fish.

[sophiechristophy]

Unlike the iron in spinach (you can boost your iron absorption from green leafy veg by eating together with a source of vitamin C, such as lemon juice or tomato btw), calcium is more easily absorbed into our body from veg sources than it is from dairy. Calcium is present in so many whole foods, that in a well balanced diet you will more than likely be getting enough from the foods that you are eating. Comparing the level of calcium present in diary vs a vegetable source does not tell you how much calcium is actually absorbed by those sources into the body.

[sophiechristophy]

sesame seeds, almonds and figs are very good calcium sources, so you could add those to breakfast porridge or as a snack in the day to get a boost.

[littleEDfamily]

Agree wholeheartedly!!! There is no way we would see the rates of osteoporosis we see in the West if the calcium in the vast quantities of dairy we tend to consume actually did our bones the good they say it does.

sophiechristophy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Unlike the iron in spinach (you can boost your

> iron absorption from green leafy veg by eating

> together with a source of vitamin C, such as lemon

> juice or tomato btw), calcium is more easily

> absorbed into our body from veg sources than it is

> from dairy. Calcium is present in so many whole

> foods, that in a well balanced diet you will more

> than likely be getting enough from the foods that

> you are eating. Comparing the level of calcium

> present in diary vs a vegetable source does not

> tell you how much calcium is actually absorbed by

> those sources into the body.

[littleEDfamily]

Oh and just to add there is strong evidence that dairy is bad for asthma, as well as a host of other conditions. If your child is prone to asthma, I would strongly suggest looking into this in further detail.

[srisky]

littleEDfamily Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Agree wholeheartedly!!! There is no way we would

> see the rates of osteoporosis we see in the West

> if the calcium in the vast quantities of dairy we

> tend to consume actually did our bones the good

> they say it does.

>

I'm sorry but that's really simplistic and not very accurate.

Osteoporosis is a multifactorial condition affected by exercise, diet (protein intake), lifestyle (smoking, alcohol), medications etc.

For example, you could eat calcium enriched foods all day, everyday but if you don't do enough weight bearing exercise then your body doesn't see the need for it and it doesn't get laid down in your bones. An extreme example would be astronauts (obviously at the peak of physical health) who are provided with nutriously complete meals, which have been extensively researched by very clever scientists. However, the lack of gravity means there is no weight bearing and they return from expeditions with osteoprotic bones and atrophied muscles etc.

As with many conditions, it is not enough just to address one factor and ignore all the others. So, just eating plenty of calcium enriched foods is not going to reduce your risk of osteoporosis, as people in the West are finding out.

For anyone planning to exclude all dairy from their diet (and especially your child's) I would strongly advise consulting a medical professional (GP, dietician) to ensure that you are fully informed about achieving a balanced diet from other food sources.

[littleEDfamily]

Hang on, I never said that diet was the ONLY reason people develop osteoporosis, simply that if dairy were the wonder 'bone food' that we are made to think it is, the incidence of osteoporosis in the West would not be what it is. My statement was not inaccurate at all. And I speak as someone due to have a bone scan in the coming months for potential osteoporosis caused by another factor (coeliac disease), so I am very aware of the different ways that people may be susceptible to this condition.

I eat dairy, as do my children, and I am not suggesting anyone exclude it from their diet, but I would actually suggest it is just important that people are educated about dairy and its negative effects in much the same was they might look for medical advice (or do their own research) relating to the potential risks if it is completely excluded.

And finally, I would not be very confident that your average GP will be very up to speed on any of this - they'll probably just troll out the normal dross that we have been raised on about the importance of dairy. Maybe a dietician (I'm seeing one in a couple of weeks so will let you know) may be able to offer an informed opinion taking into account the various, and often competing, schools of thought. But as with everything, people should do their own research if they think the issue is worth it, and not just rely on a GP to tell them what to do. (And moderator, just to add (so you don't have to), that in the case of acute illness in children, A&E, Seldoc or your GP must be your first point of call).

We need to get away from this dairy obsession, especially for children. It is simply not enough to stuff your children full of dairy and expect them to have healthy bones for life - even with reasonable weight-bearing exercise - the research just doesn't bear that assumption out.