Homeopathy remedies

[rendelharris]

I said earlier in this thread that of course homeopathy can't directly kill people, because it's pure water. What it can do, as in the instance detailed above, is cause people to put off treatment and let their illnesses get worse and even become fatal - Barry Sheene was a good example of this (not homeopathy but the idiotic Breuss diet).

To address another of your points, namely "you are persistently using arguments which plague the healing industry"; if you are going to claim that water atoms can be imprinted with a memory of another substance, something that goes against all laws of physics, of course you're going to be "plagued" by arguments saying it's nonsense.

Tell me, why do you think the combined scientists of Europe's 29 most prestigious scientific institutions concluded that homeopathy is "nonsense"? Is it all a conspiracy paid for by Big Pharma?

[TE44]

Rendal I have put up links try reading them, I am claiming the actual drugs on offer are killing people and the system set up to deal with the companies who are making them, andthe people who are suffering loss, is corrupt and cruel. Where does the most prestigous scientific institutes sit amongst this system. I realise this thread is about homeopathy, personally this cannot be looked at without it overlapping into medicine and healing as a whole.

[JoeLeg]

Cui Bono, TE44?

I?ve read your links, and the press release. I can see nothing on them that extends beyond the homeopathic industries belief that they should exist alongside modern medical practice. Fine in theory, but the NHS has finite resources, and cannot fund stuff if it does not think it will work.

I note that the example of India is used as a place where homeopathic medicine is used alongside modern techniques. I would suggest India is not the best example given some of the public health problems they have. Ayurveydic practice is fine for some stuff, but it can?t treat chronic malnutrition or the resulting complications, or many of the other issues faced on the subcontinent.

China might be a better example of two concurrently existing styles of medicine.

Tell me, do you have any training in modern medicine?

Also, would you refuse treatment that involved the use of modern drugs?

ETA - Please provide proof (PROOF!) of your ?claims? that drugs are killing people.

Actual, verifiable PROOF.

I have very little time for people who claim the NHS is in cahoots with big pharma to damage people and make money. Back up your assertions or do one.

One of the junior doctors on the team who saved my wife?s life, when discussing with me how many antibiotics they were having to give her, was quite open and scathing io his opinion of people who don?t understand that drugs are simply NOT a magic cure - that there is always a trade-off and that medicine isn?t some kind of fairy dust, but that people are living longer than they used to.

But apparently to you we should not take the drugs because they hurt us.

Tell me - where?s the cholera? How long are people living with HIV? What?s immunology? How about penicillin? Paracetamol? Steroids?

Why do you have such a problem with modern medicine? Did you prefer it when we all died at 35?

[TE44]

Joelleg i have no intention of going into my personal health on this forum to please some people who would delight in tryingto pull peopleschoices to pieces to prove themselves right. What I will say, is I have nursed people

who have chosen treatment I have refused for myself, and heres the hard bit, i have believed

In that treatment for them.

Cui bono?????

[JoeLeg]

Cui Bono? It?s Latin for ?who benefits??

Commonly referred to as - Follow The Money...

I note you refuse to answer the questions.

Are you also an anti-vaxxer?

[TE44]

Tes joe I am an "anti vaxxer" it's no big secret. I'm not being funny, I'm on phone and don't want to look bback on thread but arent you the one who put up the personal stuff about the guy and his family, sorry if u'm wrong, why would i want to give you any information when you couldn't even see how wrong that was.

Thanks fot the translation, i've never heard that before.

[rendelharris]

TE44 Wrote:

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> Rendal I have put up links try reading them, I am

> claiming the actual drugs on offer are killing

> people and the system set up to deal with the

> companies who are making them, andthe people who

> are suffering loss, is corrupt and cruel. Where

> does the most prestigous scientific institutes sit

> amongst this system. I realise this thread is

> about homeopathy, personally this cannot be looked

> at without it overlapping into medicine and

> healing as a whole.

Sorry that doesn't wash. You are refusing to answer questions regarding the fact that homeopathy has never been proved any more efficacious than a placebo in any double-blind trial and that no serious scientist agrees regarding its alleged means of operation by saying look, big pharmaceutical companies are horrid. Yes they can be, and they've made numerous mistakes and tried to cover them up and so on ad nauseam. That does not provide any argument for the efficacy of, or scientific proof for, homeopathy.

And antivaxxer - something else for which there is no scientific evidence (unless you're going to follow the disgraced and discredited charlatan Wakefield) that does do direct provable harm, not only to people making the choice (or rather imposing it on their children) but to society as a whole. You may have read that just today the Governor of Washington State in the USA has declared a public health emergency due to an outbreak of measles, something that is directly linked to the number of people who have refused to have their children vaccinated.

[TE44]

Rendall, I am extremely bored with the way vaccine discussions( if they fall into that category) go. I am not goong to repeat myself, all i will say is I hope you and I both continue to have a choice to make our own minds up, I'm off to have some hydrotherapy (Aka bath) then some alternative treatment, which i hear has some very positive results, you may agree its called fun. Have a great day, enjoy being part of the cahanging season try not to peer to hard you might miss something.

[JoeLeg]

TE44 Wrote:

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> Tes joe I am an "anti vaxxer" it's no big secret.

Then nothing you say is worth listening to. You are responsible for a cult - a neo-religious sect - which thinks it?s ok to threaten the children of doctors and would happily see kids die of measles. It?s notable Wakefield can only find succour in the land of conspiracy.

People like you are a danger to humanity and should be locked up. Do you have children? I hope not. The main reason you won?t try and defend your vile anti-vaccination position is because YOU CAN?T.

You cannot deny the countless lives saved over years by vaccines, so you ignore that inconvenient fact. You have no scientific background to your assertions about autism because they?ve all been so comprehensively debunked over the years.

All you?re left with is belief. Now belief is fine, but like religion it belongs to you and no one else.

When you have a belief which encourages the spread of disease amoungst innocent people who do not share your belief, you are no longer a person following their own views on treatment - you are a menace to public health.

Homeopathy is your choice, your belief. Keep it there and it?s not a problem. You are free to believe what you will qprovided you bring no harm to others. But when you claim your way is not only superior but that the field of modern medicine only causes harm - and do it without proof - then you?ve gone too far and I for one will not stand for it.

I have no issue with what others choose to do to themselves; over their own body and mind the individual is sacrosanct. But when you make us live with the consequences of your belief, it?s too much.

Homeopathy is a belief, at its core. Now I?m aware that the universe is a very strange place and there?s a lot of stuff we can?t understand. I don?t pretend to there?s nothing to what I would term ?unconventional? healing practices. But you don?t have anything past belief. The internet will tell you anything you want it to, and there?s any amount of confirmation bias out there that will tell you I?m wrong, and I don?t imagine I?m going to change your mind anyway. That?s the thing with a conspiracy theory - you don?t need to provide proof, you just have to say ?I Believe!?...

Entire buildings are filled with scientists trying to make people healthier. For you to write them off as corrupt is beyond words.

[TE44]

Ha ha ha how ridiculous,

Edited too say repeat editing is very confusing when you don't have a computer and throws a diffrent light on to peoples reactions to what was originally said.

[JoeLeg]

TE44 Wrote:

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> Ha ha ha how ridiculous,

Yes, you are. You are ridiculous and dangerous.

Enjoy your tinfoil...bye bye!

[TE44]

At no point have i said my choices are superior, nor do I use homeopathy on a regular basis. Maybe Joe you need to look to yourself at your accusations. If you ever have to support a loved one that chooses a different method of healing you don't approve of you may realise to help you may have to drop your judgemental attitude. Goodbte.

[JoeLeg]

(Can?t beleive I?m doing this)

Excuse me, but I stated clearly that what people do to themselves is their business.

Get some reading comprehension.

My problem with you is your imposition of your values on others.

[TE44]

Lets call it a day joeleg seriously I have not imposed my opinions in fact your post above is accusing me of being responsible for all the ills a danger to humanity, you are making some very big assumptions, that are not true. However threatened you may feel by my choices I would suggest you look at how dangerous people can be when they cannot understand others view, they resort to blaming, isolating, victimising other than having respect.

[JoeLeg]

(Edited because you aren?t worth it)

[rendelharris]

TE44 Wrote:

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> Rendall, I am extremely bored with the way vaccine

> discussions( if they fall into that category) go.

> I am not goong to repeat myself,

Ah, the oldest, cheapest and weakest get-out in the book, "I could prove how you are wrong but I can't be bothered". Funny how you can drone on for pages about homeopathy but suddenly when asked to defend the utterly indefensible you can't be bothered. Totally transparent.

> Have a

> great day, enjoy being part of the cahanging

> season try not to peer to hard you might miss

> something.

Huh?

[TE44]

Don't make me laugh Rendal, i'd need a get out of jail free card if Joeleg had his wat, where is the basis for any understandin when There is a belief I should be locked up and who knows what restrictions may be applied to my children

If some people had there way. I would say some people are most definitely a danger. Or where do you stand Rendal. Do you believe people should have a choice.

[rendelharris]

Not when it comes to whether or not they're allowed to endanger children's lives because they hold fatuous unsubstantiated beliefs, not really, no.

[Chick]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Not when it comes to whether or not they're

> allowed to endanger children's lives because they

> hold fatuous unsubstantiated beliefs, not really,

> no.

[robbin]

Isn't Prince Charles into homeopathy?

'nuff said!

[lavender27]

Thanks

Is there a homeopathic remedy for microscopic ants around the anus?

Hummm itchy scratchy

[lavender27]

Some great points here, just to add has anyone heard or know of a homeopathic hospital?

[lavender27]

lavender27 Wrote:

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> Thanks

>

> Is there a homeopathic remedy for microscopic ants

> around the anus?

>

> Hummm itchy scratchy.

[Penguin68]

Some great points here, just to add has anyone heard or know of a homeopathic hospital?

Sadly, yes

https://www.uclh.nhs.uk/ourservices/ourhospitals/rlhim/pages/historyofrlhim.aspx

I can't be bothered to go back over this interminable thread, but to note that homeopathy (which does nothing) was often safer than interventive medicine in the 19th century which did something, but often something bad (it is better to 'cure' syphilis with water than mercury). That all changed by the 1950s and certainly into the 21st century when medical interventions are genuinely beneficial. Homeopathy (still water, if beaten against a saddle) does no direct harm (save where it is preferred to actual medication). No does it do any good better than the placebo effect - which isn't in itself nothing - people genuinely do get better or at least improve through sugar pills or water, but then the body is an amazing self-healing mechanism - think how cuts and bruises get better without any intervention save to keep them (cuts) free of infection.

[PeckhamRose]

Wow. 6 pages on this nonsense!