Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill

[Charles Notice]

How many people does 71% represent, how many people actually voted, how many people voted yes and how many people voted no.

Unless this is declared the result is not worth the paper it is printed on.

As this looks like turning into a usual RendHarris thread of on and on and on till you decide to give up because it will just go on and on, whether you believe you have a valid reason for posting I will cede you the winner.

I believe that this closure is madness but it meets Southwark's overall plan of controlling motor car usage so in the end they will win.

This thread is over for me. Perhaps others might like to take it up? May be those that live in the area effected by the closure who will have to use the new routes home.

[rendelharris]

I know it's hard to accept when people disagree with you Charles, but disagree they do, it has been voted on (every resident on Champion Hill was given the information pack and the opportunity to vote and 71% of those responding were in favour) and the trial is going ahead, gripe about it as much as you wish.

ETA Found those figures for you, 83 Champion Hill residents voted yes and 32 no. Still not worth the paper it's written on, I'm sure.

[first mate]

Think Charles makes a reasonable point though.

[sdrs]

Residents of a number of neighbouring roads that will be directly affected were not leafleted to notify them of the online questionnaire, the leafleting was highly selective. There are legitimate concerns from many quarters (including from residents of Champion Hill itself) that displacing traffic from what is manifestly already the healthiest street in the area (Safer and healthier still since the introduction of the 20MPH speed limit and speed humps) onto other less healthy (but also residential) streets, will add to existing congestion on these roads, pushing NO2 levels up to dangerous levels at peak times across the wider area. These are densely residential roads used by thousands of pedestrians daily to access local schools, stations, bus stops and hospitals. One of these is Dog Kennel Hill, where the pupil entrance is located. There are also concerns about the impact on northbound buses in morning rush hour and on emergency response times (ambulances trying to access A&E via Grove Lane and Champion Park, for example). The monitoring plan did not include NO2 monitoring on those roads traffic will be displaced onto but Councillor Livingstone has agreed to get some installed and to look into extending the monitoring of bus journey times on Champion Park, where the worst effects of the trial are likely to be felt by bus users.

[farfisamania]

"How many people does 71% represent? Like RPH how many said yes and how many said no"

It's all in a very easily accessible report on the website.

In Champion Hill and side roads: yes, 80, no 32. It took me about 5 seconds to find that.

It seems like a good scheme and unlikely to cause the carmaggedon some are suggesting. If it does cause any problems, the trial will highlight them: this is why people run trials. Unfortunately when dealing with motoring issues people will indulge in any amount of goalpost moving to justify their annoyance at having to drive 30 seconds further.

[rupert james]

Following your email I looked at the "Sustrans" consultation for the "quietway" that met with over all disapproval, if my memory serves me and has not got off the ground, Southwark has used this document to implement the scheme.

What would have been helpful would be to know was how each individual street voted to see where problems might be by looking at the yes or no response to closure. Was it one part that wanted it or from responses across the whole area.

Overall they did not appear to be worried or they would have replied in greater numbers with a yes or no vote.

People should look at the consultation document and make their own minds up as to whether this should have been subject to a more up to date consultation bearing in mind Champion Hill has greatly improved.

[AylwardS]

Champion Hill

It?s a trial and there will be formal consultation if the trial is judged successful. Monitoring will take place for 9-12 months. If it affects you feed your experience and views into the formal consultation so it can be judged on current traffic flow / impact.

The next stages given on the Council website https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/championhilltrial/ are:

* February - Autumn 2019 (6-9 months): Monitoring period, including settling in period and monitoring surveys, and online feedback questionnaire/liaison with key stakeholders

* Late Autumn 2019: Results of monitoring analysed and presented and consultation on permanent feature

* Winter 2019/20: Decision making-?consultation report and recommendations

* Spring 2020: Make permanent/remove/modifications/mitigation (subject to statutory consultation)

They also say what they want to monitor so if one of these affects you tell them.

What do we want to monitor?

During the trial we intend to monitor impact of the trial on the following:

* Road safety/traffic dominance on Champion Hill

* Road safety/traffic dominance around Dog Kennel Hill Primary School

* Road safety at the raised table in Champion?Hill

* Access needs for local residents

* Traffic displacement onto adjacent residential roads

* Traffic on Dog Kennel Hill, Grove Lane, Champion Park and Denmark Hill?

I?ve only scanned it but there is a report on next steps which includes info on monitoring and what is expected from the trial. Tie back your feedback to this and show you?ve considered their objectives and the local impact. https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/championhilltrial/supporting_documents/Consultation%20summary%20and%20next%20steps%20v1.0.pdf

A trial gives time to see how it works, what the impact is and how it affects you. Seems like a good thing to me - the final decision can be made on the current situation not how it was or is expected to be and those affected can monitor it too not just the Council

[rupert james]

The picture of Champion Hill in the consultation looks a very very pleasant place to live.

[rendelharris]

rupert james Wrote:

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> The picture of Champion Hill in the consultation

> looks a very very pleasant place to live.

And the caption reads "Taken at 11.30AM", hardly peak hour.

[rupert james]

I suspect as people have been saying it is only for a very limited period traffic is there and then it is like this.

Then quiet, pleasant and no problem.

[wulfhound]

Indeed - the problem is that the traffic is exactly when kids need to be walking or even cycling to and from school. It's nice to be able to pick quiet times of day to travel, but schools don't give that option unfortunately.

[rupert james]

Simple answer.

Make the road DKH/ Champion Hill no entry 0830 to 1000 and Denmark Hill/Champion Hill 1530 1700 hrs.

Southwark will earn money with camera fining vehicles that do not obey

Like the camera covering the bus lane on DKH.

Parents happy, residents and car owners happy.

This thought cost zero.

[rendelharris]

I'd support that - only mornings 7.30-9.30 and evenings 15.30-18.30.

[sally buying]

Why was this option never thought of at the very beginning before this consultation was pushed through?

Is it because "Sustrans" need to justify their fee's and Southwark need a backstop?

Well done Rupert

[spider69]

I have asked Southwark Council why this option was never put forward for consideration.

I am sure my lone voice will be ignored.

[BellendenBear]

It seems unreasonable to close entry to champion Hill without allowing traffic to turn right from Grove Hill Road into Grove Park. This is one of the most commonly listed objections on The Southwark website. They say that they hope that with time traffic will move onto main roads but at the moment it is not possible for traffic to go from Bellenden Road area towards Denmark Hill without using residential roads as you can?t turn right at Dog Kennel Hill school. So instead of pushing traffic onto main roads, it will increase traffic on Bromar Road and through the DKH estate on roads which are far more congested than Champion Hill.

I can see why the council want to reduce traffic but surely they could improve their strategy. At the moment it seems that they just respond to pressure from one group of residents by pushing the problem onto somewhere else.

[sdrs]

Bang on. A brand new ?rat run? will be created, bisecting the East Dulwich Estate (what consideration is being given to the residents?) Bromar and Pytchley Roads are, as you say, far less able to cope with traffic than Champion Hill. But TfL have ruled out lifting the banned right turn from Grove Hill Road onto Grove Lane due to the impact this would have on northbound buses coming up Dog Kennel Hill.

[Passiflora]

Looks like this Experimental Traffic Order has come into force and not long after the notices were posted.

Had to drive straight over the top of Dog Kennel Hill today to access entry on to Denmark Hill.

[sdrs]

Yes, that?s why Dog Kennel Hill, Grove Lane and Champion Park were all gridlocked by 8.15am today in morning rush hour. Doesn?t bode well.

[Mrspushkin]

Still a total nightmare. Have been trying out various routes to Herne Hill all of which are gridlocked. This morning a trip that?d normally take 10 minutes took 45. Don?t know if anyone else has noticed but the driving in the area has become increasingly aggressive over the last week. Who at Southwark thought closing that road was a good idea?

[Paul Lupton]

What a nightmare this simple road closure is turning into

First, I had no idea there was a consultation - why don?t they do one (properly for regular road users) - under 80 people resonded to th official consultation (I read)

2nd there are no signs indicating it is blocked off especially at Dog Kennel Hill lights by the school so me and other countless vehicles (including a Southwark Councillorry) had to turn round at the cycle lane - warning there?s a camera for any misdemeanours !

3. How is this improving traffic flow ? At 9:30am, a journey to a gardening client took 20 mins and normally takes 5 mins - the traffic jam at the Denmark Hill Stan traffic lights was further back than the George Canning PH

Surely this can?t be permanent ?

Anyone have any info as to whom to complain to ?

I?m just fed up of London Co7ncils making driving for all more and more ridiculous - if you can?t park any where they just close or block off a really handy locals routs - we are constantly being forced down the main road route with endless queues, frustration and costs.

Is it me?

Paul Lupton Garden Services

[Paul Lupton]

Ps I missed off - they have only just reopened the bridge on Grove Lane and now this ! The reopening saves me at least 20 mins a day and relieves Bellenden of traffic chaos all day but especially at peak times

[flanter]

Just added eight minutes to my fifteen minute commute. That's eight minutes with the engine running so my carbon footprint is 50% up this morning. I cannot see who this is helping. And I do need to take a car most days.

[Siduhe]

wrong thread! sorry.

[Charles Notice]

Paul Lupton Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What a nightmare this simple road closure is

> turning into

>

> First, I had no idea there was a consultation -

> why don?t they do one (properly for regular road

> users) - under 80 people resonded to th official

> consultation (I read)

>

> 2nd there are no signs indicating it is blocked

> off especially at Dog Kennel Hill lights by the

> school so me and other countless vehicles

> (including a Southwark Councillorry) had to turn

> round at the cycle lane - warning there?s a camera

> for any misdemeanours !

>

> 3. How is this improving traffic flow ? At 9:30am,

> a journey to a gardening client took 20 mins and

> normally takes 5 mins - the traffic jam at the

> Denmark Hill Stan traffic lights was further back

> than the George Canning PH

>

> Surely this can?t be permanent ?

>

> Anyone have any info as to whom to complain to ?

>

> I?m just fed up of London Co7ncils making driving

> for all more and more ridiculous - if you can?t

> park any where they just close or block off a

> really handy locals routs - we are constantly

> being forced down the main road route with endless

> queues, frustration and costs.

>

> Is it me?

> Paul Lupton Garden Services

I have written many times to Eleanor Kelly, Peter John and Richard Livingstone about this who have never deemed to acknowledge my emails. No have they asked Southwark officers to respond.

I last wrote asking why Rupert Jones idea of a short closure during rush hour was never put up as an option. Again no response.

Southwark Officers have no idea how the area works only a ill thought out plan by children to inflict the master plan against moving traffic.

If our local Cllr cannot be bothered to respond, still they do not have to worry for another 4 years until election time what hope is there. I suspect it does not fit in with their agenda.

It was a great pity Ian Wingfield was deselected at least he knew the area.