Toddler not settling at 7pm

[akc74]

Having seen some helpful sleep threads on here, I thought I'd throw my issue out there to the wise forumites.

Currently my 17m old has decided he doesn't like his 7pm bedtime anymore. He settles quietly at first but within 5 mins of us leaving he is screaming and the cycle is repeated with us going in 2-3 times and him eventually conking out at 7.45/8pm. I'm pretty sure it's not teeth/illness as he's been in good spirits during the day.

I am not sure if he genuinely isn't tired or just wants to be cuddled - I know I should probably be able to tell the difference! He sleeps till 6.30-7am at the moment which is the upside as he has previously been a very early riser.

He also sleeps for 2 hours at about 12.30pm.

Is it just a clingy phase or does anyone think I should be cutting back his lunchtime nap? He is often still quite out of it after 2 hours, so I'm not sure about shortening it already. Lots of his little buddies are still sleeping in the morning as well as a long one after lunch.

Thoughts welcome!

[oimissus]

my daughter (now nearly 2) went through a phase of bellowing in outrage when she was put down, probably at around this age - you could tell from the tone that she wasn't distressed (and we knew she wasn't ill). Lasted about a fortnight, felt like forever at the time. She's gone through a number of different bedtime phases, we're currently in the 'chat and sing to herself for about 30 minutes before conking out' one. I would listen to the tone of the crying - does he sound distressed or cross - our daughter's cry was definitely a cross bellow.

Teething is a tricky one, our daughter could be as happy as larry, no dribbling or red cheeks or any obvious signs, but the pain did seem to kick in at night, and the crying would have a different tone and I would then remember that perhaps she had been chewing her fingers a bit in the day. So pay close attention during the day and if in doubt I'd maybe give him a dose of Calpol at bedtime. I wouldn't cut back on his lunchtime nap, I think that might just make him overtired and cranky and possibly worse at bedtime.

I'm absolutely no expert so just really relaying our experience which was that it was just a phase. I think they do chop and change so much, and most of the time, before, during and after, we've had no idea why!

[Indiana]

I think our little girl did this for a while around that age - we ended up making her bedtime slightly later and decreasing her nap time during the day to an hour and half.

If she was still unsettled after being put down we found that singing her a little song over the monitor (usually 'row row your boat') instead of going in all the time helped to settle her. She would often be standing in her cot crying so we would ask over the monitor if she wanted a song, are you lieing down etc and it seemed to calm her without us having to go in.

It lasted about a month - now she is alot easier to go down again

[nylonmeals]

His sleep patterns sound fairly similar to our little boy - we ended up moving his bedtime back to 7.30pm and that seemed to solve any sleep issues that we had. I tend to think that if he is sleeping for 2 hours during the day then go with that - his body probably needs it and it gives you a great break too.

Good luck!

[akc74]

Ha - just found this old post of mine and he's now 20 months and still doing the same thing - screaming for Daddy or Mummy as he wants more cuddles and won't be left.

Keep thinking I need to leave him in order to break the habit, but can't bring myself to listen to it for too long.

Anyone else got any other experiences of this and how to handle it? I miss my evenings that used to start at 7pm!

For now, I'm off back up to try and calm him down....

[lucyA1308]

If our toddler has had periods of restlessness (not often at night, but sometimes early in the morning) we go and lie down on the floor, next to her cot, so that she gets the idea that sleep is a good thing. We might sing, or hold her hand through the bars, but not pick her up or cuddle.

Once you pick her up or cuddle her, then she just wants that, and any ideas of sleep go out of the window, but lying down next to the cot gives her an idea that this is what needs to happen.

[beababies]

With no experience of my own to draw on, I'm calling in Supernanny's advice :) ! Sorry, I don't know if you like her methods but the above advice seems similar to her sleep "technique" when putting toddlers to bed, if they start crying then she advises parents to go into the room and to sit at the base of the cot, or nearby and to face towards the door, and as the advice above states, not to engage with the child, or pick them up but sit there, and in Supernanny's (!) opinion to face the door, without moving or talking, so that they feel comfortable knowing you're there to fall asleep. From episodes I've seen where parents do this, in really difficult cases, the first night around this is really tough, with parents having to sit through quite a bit of crying, but the nights afterwards are almost instantaneously much better. Might be worth a try?!

Bea

x

[bluesuperted]

*Disclosure* I do not like many of Supernanny's techniques and often disagree with her advice. I also wouldn't personally do CC, which the above is a variation of.

I'd give the extra cuddles. 20mo is still really little, and he won't need you like this forever... But then, I cuddle my son to sleep (and love the time, actually really look forward to it each day) and it often takes 45 minutes/an hour for him to settle to a deep sleep. Obviously not as easy if you have more than one child but this time will still pass very quickly and you'll be onto the next stage.

[mouseysarah]

If he's settling at 7.45 then try moving his bedtime back a bit? My son gradually moved his bedtime back and it is now 7.45-8, unless he is really tired or poorly. 7pm bedtime doesn't suit them all!

[Fuschia]

I think I would try a 730 bedtime. You have nothing to lose

[akc74]

To be honest it is often 7.20/7.30 by the time the lights are out already - we still get the screaming, usually for less time and he is more tired by then I guess. This morning he woke at 5.30am and that was it for the day - no going back to bed in spite of my efforts.

I think he probably needs to learn to self settle so that as and when he wakes in the night he is able to go back to sleep by himself. I do enjoy the bedtime cuddles but not the repeated demands for them, and the crying - I think it would be better for him, not just us, if he could happily go to sleep by himself. I am also 20 wks pregnant and don't think i could manage it once there's a new baby.

[alieh]

Could he be a bit overtired at bedtime instead? Tears at bedtime plus 5:30 am starts usually indicate overtiredness for us. Mine both do better with lights out around 6:30. 2 hours at lunchtime sounds very normal for that age, so may not be that the nap is too long.

You could try starting the bedtime routine earlier for a few days and see if that helps?

Also the "gradual retreat" approach does work well at that age. Lying by the bed for a few days then moving to a chair by the door, then outside the door, etc. Sometimes they just get themselves into a habit and you just need to rejig the routine a bit to try to remind them that they're okay at bedtime.

18 months is also a very common time for sleep regressions, so could just be a bit of a hangover from that?

[Belle]

we were in this position jan/feb last year, and I was newly pregnant so also worrying ahead. I did the lying by the cot thing most of the time, but not in a supernany way. I did limit talk etc otherwise he'd then just sit up and think it was playtime, but I'd hold his hand and just lie or sit near him. If I thought he was trying it on, I wouldn't go straight up the minute he shouted. We had 2-3 mths of it and it was tough but he's come through it really well. I think the reassurance helped. If we ever left him too long (by accident usually) he'd get way to wound up to sleep. Likewise if we went in too soon/too often he turned it into a game. Sorry haven't read all posts closely so may be repeating here.

I spent most of last year to-ing and fro-ing on the nap, and the fact was he def still needed it right up to about Sept last year when he was 2.8 mths, but it was def affecting nightime - an annoying catch 22.

[akc74]

Tonight we decided not to get him out of the cot for the cuddles, but we went in about every 5 mins and tried to reassure him with stroking, singing Twinkle Twinkle etc - he was in a bit of a state for probably about 45 mins in total, eventually becoming more willing to lie down and then suddenly saying "Bye bye" at about 8.15. I will find this hard to do in the night but I guess I should be consistent and will do it again tomorrow night.

Thanks for all the tips, it's really helpful to know other people have had similar issues and interesting to hear a variety of different responses.

[snowboarder]

I think my oldest was about 20m when he started messing about at bedtime a bit (not really screaming though) - which I put down to dropping his nap but actually even now (3 in april) he still has an hours nap most days. We started a routine in the evening where after bath he has a play with some toys in his room and gets a story then has a book or a toy in his bed with a nightlight on and low dimmer so he can play/'read' once we have left him - he then can chose whether to go straight to sleep or play for a bit by himself and wind down. It worked pretty well when his brother rocked up when he was 22m - meant I could leave him to settle the baby even if he was not ready to go to sleep.