cafe nero - petition

[Frisco]

"Oh my, I do beg your pardon. Tell you what, send them to Camberwell. We'll take them. You can have one of any number of our small indepedent fried chicken shops or nail salons. Deal?"

You could always move Maurice, it's not as though Camberwell hasn't been like that for eons.

Welcome to ED

[dc]

What I still do not understand is how the recommendation from Southwark's officers namely:

"The use of the premises for combined A1/A3 use would result in the partial loss of retail floorspace. Although the site is located within a protected shopping frontage, the proposal which involves a combination of both A1 and A3 uses would not undermine the shopping objectives of the area as it would not result in a reduction of retail uses below 50% of the shopping frontage in compliance with Policy 1.10 of the Southwark UDP 2007. Furthermore the proposed use compliments the retail function of the parade with no adverse effects on the vitality or viability of the shopping frontage." http://www.southwark.gov.uk/Uploads/FILE_25666.pdf (dated 01/03/07)

Was turned on its head when the decision was taken:

"The proposal has resulted in the loss of a Class A1 retail shop within a protected shopping frontage, and a reduction of Class A1 retail uses below the 50% split between retail and non-retail uses, leading to the compromise of the retail vitality and viability of the area and consequently a loss of amenity to local residents. As such, the development is contrary to Policy 1.7 Development within Town and Local Centres, Policy 1.9 Change of Use within Protected Shopping Frontages and Policy 3.2 Protection of Amenity of the Emerging Southwark Plan (Jan 2007) and Policy S.1.2 Secondary Shopping Frontages and Policy E.3.1 Protection of Amenity of the Adopted Southwark Unitary Development Plan (1995)." http://planningonline.southwarksites.com/AcolNetCGI.exe?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPSESSION=%7B%5B%2A%211B3B37163D3D352B2218373C7977747C7E626370681C081E01121F00791C2E213B766000142F262B3C7660001429240D203D3617212F32621A3D3B34312B152F3D3437310D0A7C7C7F6A677C717E647C0B6265737C7D%21%2A%5D%7D (dated 07/03/07)

[EDOldie]

Bit more than afew pastries then. Does seem completely arse about face. Some newspeak from any of the councillors?

[Frisco]

I thought that when the current government first took office in 1997 that they undertook to specify that Plain English should be the standard in written communication issued by central and local government, particularly when it's information issued to the public.

Plain English seems to have managed to escape Southwark and its planning staff. And politicians continue to wonder why people don't engage with them and with politics generally.

[Barry Rhode]

Chains are bland, faceless and contribute nothing to the feeling of a local neighbourhood, something that's a rare thing in London, indeed and what many people do enjoy and miss

I love going into Val's at the top of Barry Road, having a chat and shopping in a friendly, environment where I'm not another anonymous number

I never go into Nero (simply because I don't drink coffee that way)

But if I did feel like a cuppa I'd go to a place where I'm likely to build a rapport with the staff which want to be there in the long term - and not a place where a coffee shop manager, fresh out of "Upselling Overpriced Black Currant Muffins" training gives me his best McDonald's Jonny 2 star routines

I suppose I'm indifferent really but if it went I wouldn't shed a tear.

[char1ie]

Barry Rhode Wrote:

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> But if I did feel like a cuppa I'd go to a place

> where I'm likely to build a rapport with the staff

> which want to be there in the long term

It's funny you say that because the lad that has been working in Cafe Nero for a while is the most friendly, happy and charming member of staff that I've come across in East Dulwich, better than the moody, morose and indiferent staff in Chandelier and Blue Mountain.

Charlie

[dulwichmum]

I love Nero's.

It only seems like ten minutes ago there was tumble weed blowing down Lordship Lane. We are lucky that the lane has developed as well as it has, it could have been fried chicken shops, nail bars and MacDonalds. Have any of you been to Norwood High Street or that dreadful Tesco on Croxted Road? People have so much to say against the chains and then hyperventilate with excitement if anyone suspects a new branch of M&S food will open up. If people don't like it, no-one is pushing them to go in.

As far as I am aware, it is often difficult to find a seat in Nero's, and since they made a pigs ear our of Starbucks in Saino's, it is my most favourite coffee shop in East Dulwich, everyone in there is lovely. The staff of Blue Mountain are like a bunch of ratcatcher's dogs sucking wasps...

[Keef]

dulwichmum Wrote:

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> People have so much to say against the chains and then hyperventilate with excitement if anyone suspects a new branch of M&S food will open up.

LOL, Good point!

> The staff of Blue Mountain are like a bunch of ratcatcher's dogs sucking wasps...

I know a couple of these guys, they make me feel very old, but they're really nice. That said, I never go in there, so I guess they're more cheerful when they're not working for minimum wage ;-)

[Nero]

There is a great young lad at Blue Mountain. He has curly Hair-Bear bunch hair and is funny and polite. Rather him than the somehow rather grim ladies at Mon Petit Chou. Best of the lot are at Jacks* . Nero

* (sic)

[Keef]

Sounds like Oscar, and yeah he's the one I know.

[Administrator]

Stay on topic please

[char1ie]

In what way is discussing staff at Cafe Nero not staying on topic?

Charlie

[Administrator]

The topic is "cafe nero - petition"

"There is a great young lad at Blue Mountain...."

"Sounds like Oscar, and yeah he's the one I know."

is chat about staff at the Blue Mountain Cafe, not about the petition at Caffe Nero. This is a popular discussion and I would like it stay on topic if possible.

[James]

I'm with dulwichmum on this one! What good would closing Nero down do? Might satisfy some people with axes to grind on various issues but we would lose a precious, decent place to get a coffee. So what if it's a chain? It's a good chain, that's all that matters and if you want to support local businesses you can always go to Blue Mountain instead (which I think is pretty poor in comparison). As it is they are both usually heaving so it's not as if the indie places are being driven out - a bit of competition might make them up their game. Surely a good thing?

[snorky]

Its sets a precedent and allows business to determine what happens in our neighbourhood

the product is irrelevant here - be it Coffee, depleted Uranium, day old kittens or an asbestos plant.

I dont have ( misplaced ) beef with chains vs. locals - theres a great deal of rubbish spoken on this subject by those with an agenda, but any business dictating the development is wrong.

Nero may not be the first, but they should be sorted out and made a bright shining example of, now thatr this is getting a higher profile - it could serve as a warning to other rapacious businesses

Remember these shops are not here to help to "community" - they are here to extract as much cash as they can from the residents - they ignored basic planning laws to make money - thats the bottom line - this isnt like a charity for kittens rescued from a hessian sack in a canal building an extra shed in their back yard to save the kittens lives - this is about money

Do you have any values or a moral code to try and live by ?

Sadly , It would seem not.

[reggie]

James.. How can an indie compete with a chain that has the resources to open up without full planning permission?

Oh No Cappuccino... the Suburban Pirate

[dulwichmum]

Darling Snorky,

Many of these new shops do in fact enhance our community. Standing on Lordship Lane about twenty years ago at 8am waiting for the 176 - it was like a ghost town, with boarded up shops galore. Like it or not, it now feels cosmopolitan and upmarket. Some of the brand names we see actually add to that. It is not about moral codes and drowning kittens, Lordship Lane feels young and upmarket now. Wait for a bus and Norwood High Street these days and you will be surrounded by all manner of tatty pound shop emporia and nail bars. I for one think that East Dulwich has improved for the better and I love Nero.

[snorky]

edited cos this is futile.

[Barry Rhode]

char1ie Wrote:

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>better than the

> moody, morose and indiferent staff in Chandelier

> and Blue Mountain.

>

No doubt, but I don't go there either

[James]

I have "no moral code" because I'm okay with Cafe Nero flouting a planning law? Good grief...

Actually I do think it's a bit rubbish they did that. Maybe they could pay a fine for it which could be put back into the community? Or even better, maybe there could be some kind of two-tier rent system whereby places like Nero help to subsidise independents whereby both can flourish side-by-side?

Besides which, you have to ask what exatly we are protecting with these silly planning laws. Are we trying to safeguard the old Norwood High street style ED? In which case, let's get rid of the laws...

Oops, forgot to reply to this:

>>How can an indie compete with a chain that has the resources to open up without full planning permission?

Look around you! The indies are doing very well thanks very much! Despite some wobbly service and general ineptitude.

[Mark]

I agree with James. I have contacted Caffe Nero head office twice now asking what's going on and they have never replied so I don't know the full story but in my opinion (taken from a previous post) closing it down now would take away a popular service and mean there's an empty shop unit on Lordship Lane.

Caffe Nero have done wrong there's no denying that, so would it be possible to grant them A3 but fine them a huge amount for the offence, say ?223,000 which would have to go directly into our community? I've met people who are adamant that Caffe Nero must close down because they've done wrong but is closing them down the only option? It would be great if it could be turned to the East Dulwich community's advantage i.e keep it open and have the money to put back into community wardens, street cleaners, general improvements etc. Nero would have have been punished and other companies wouldn't try it on because they know they'd get a whopping fine.

[Dr De Soto]

On reflection I agree that a fine is the best punishment in this instance. They certainly shouldn't be allowed to get away with it scot free.

[Fuschia]

It is appalling they can just expect to get away with it. I wrote to my councillor about it a while back to object!

[tomk]

long live nero's!! latte's all round!! going straight down to sign the petition...

[dulwichmum]

I shall be first in there tomorrow morning - as usual!