Controlled Parking Zone For Dulwich?

[kford]

And don't be silly, frisco.

[Wino]

Controlling the parking around the station is a different issue. I don't park near it and so I don't know what the situation is like for residents. If there is a significant problem that can be put down to people driving into London to work and then using the East Dulwich/Peckham rail services to complete the commute, then I agree that there should be some control. This would probably mean that more commuters would start to seek parking further down the lane and its side roads. But even so, I would rather see what the effect of this would be than to want a blanket control for the whole of East Dulwich.

As others have pointed out, one of the reasons for the recent East Dulwich "glamour", is the market and the shops. Their presence "raises" the area, but the down side is increased traffic. Making it difficult for people to drive and park to use the shops will mean that they will go else where. I don't think many of the gift shops and market holders would survive without non-resident business. I for one hardly use them, it would be interesting to hear how many ED residents do?

At the end of the day it is a question of balance and I tend to have an inbuilt caution when it comes to any council attempting to regulate things. Too often I have seen a heavy handed "blanket" solution (that is more driven by finance than residents' needs) completely bugger up a road/area.

[kford]

Wise words, Wino.

[Frisco]

Carrie said: "Frisco, you probably live on the SE15 side of Grove Vale"

I'm afraid you're wrong, I don't. I live firmly in SE22 and have done for 20+ years, and I paid the premium required even then to do so. I also indicated that I was in favour of restricted parking to prevent all day commuter parking, which could be as simple as having putting residents parking only in place between 11am and 1pm, or another combination of times. I've also suggested restrictions within a specified radius, and not by postcode, which as you indicate will only encourage displacement of the problem.

kford said: "And don't be silly, frisco."

Sorry kford, I'll leave that to you with your very good Jim Trott at the Dibley parochial church council meeting impression.

[kford]

Thanks! (tu)

[snorky]

I would be cautious of siding with the traders on this as their priorities are not the same as residents.

[EDOldie]

The parking problem is not that bad compared to other parts of London. I parked with ease, and for free, twice today to use the butchers and the cheese block. I also went to Sainsburys to bulk up and could have got everything there. The huge advantage the Village has is that there are no restrictions there and this is a great benefit to the shopping centre. Theres even a small car park behind the naff Piaf. LL is not difficult to park in or around. Lets keep it that way.

[Billy]

I live very close to the station and parking is a nightmare because of the commuters who leave there cars in the road. Often I have to drive around for 20 minutes before I can find somewhere to park near my house. I would therefore welcome controlled parking. That said there are ways to deal with this without it being a revenue raising exercise. What about a residents parking scheme where there is an hour in each day when only residents in a street can park? That catches the irritating commuters who wouldn't be able to leave their cars there all day, without affecting shoppers who are parking for an hour or so and then leaving. I know that Lambeth has a similar scheme in place.

[peckhamboy]

I guess the problem with any sort of CPZ is going to be that unless it extends for a sizeable distance from the station it will simply displace the problem. Sure, those who live immediately next to the station may benefit but only at the cost of passing the problem onto their neighbours a couple of streets away. And if the zone extends too far, I doubt it will do much to alleviate the problem - I suspect the problem is not "out of towners" driving in to use the fantastic rail service from ED (there are better services from stations further out than ED) but is more of a local issue, ie people living about 15 mins walk or more from the station simply being lazy and driving down rather than walking or waiting for a bus. So, like extending the congestion zone to include areas like Chelsea has resulted in the city getting clogged up again, those people could end up continuing to drive to the station.

And, as someone else pointed out above - visitor and resident passes are only ever available in person from the parking shops which are located in the back of beyond (and the councils seem to take care to ensure they are never near any public transport routes) and open only for about 30 minutes a day.

[Wino]

It would be interesting to know if this (lazy locals over lazy commuters) is the case. If it is, the one hour residents scheme would not work.

I must admit I have not heard of the one hour scheme and if the problem is commuters then in principal it could work. I would still not be happy in being charged for it though. If the council allocated one free resident pass per vehicle per electorally registered property then that is a different matter.

[Marcus]

I live on Melbourne Grove and can never park anywhere near my house during the day. In the evening there are, of course, spaces everywhere. My wife is pregnant and soon she will be juggling shopping, general baby equipment and a baby. For me, not being able to park on our road is an inconvenience. For her, it will make life more difficult.

If you don't live near the station then you just don't have to deal with this everyday.

I hate councils fleecing residents for parking fees/fines and I hate(!) traffic wardens but...

I agree with Billy, would one hour a day controlled parking, just to stop the commuters be that bad..?

With reference to peckhamboy - I think you are 100% correct that it's people living 10-20 mins from the station just being lazy. I'm fairly lazy myself and would probably do the same... In Fulham, the CPZ is broken up into smaller local zones that span 2/3 roads. This would avoid the problem of people at the outside of the zone still driving to the station.

[monica]

Frisco where were you when they wanted to introduce the cpz near the station,i went to so many meetings and the initial consultation.Most of the residents of melbourne grove derwent grove,matham grove and east dulwich grove were sent letters,this was about 5 years ago

[monica]

Snorky how long have you lived in SE22? We all have our reasons for not wanting cpz and your comment about siding with us was somewhat offensive. Everything the retailers do, yes we think of ourselves but primarily we think of the patrons of East Dulwich. We fought for 5 years,to increase parking for residents and shoppers,i myself go out and warn motorists not to park in certain areas.

[dc]

In the Southwark part of Herne Hill there is a CPZ that operates between noon and 2pm only. There is also free parking in front of the shops on the northern side of Half Moon Lane and at the end of Stradella Road for up to an hour to allow people to stop and pop into local shops. This has completely eliminated commuter parking. The signs are small and in keeping with what is a conservation area. It all seems to work rather well.

[BARA]

I am in 2 minds re CPZ - they can be a boon but depending how they are done. In Clapham, when I worked in Lambeth a few years ago- each couple of roads were given different zones i.e. Roads A- C would be classed as Zone 1a, D- F =Zone 1b. Resident with Zone 1a badge not being able to park anywhere in the Zone would end up in Zone 1b and get themselves a parking ticket. Much better to have an area designated as one zone and having several streets to choose from.

As an essential car user working with elderly, mentally ill and other vulnerable people - I can get called out on an emergency anytime between 9 - 5 pm and without my employers purchasing a borough wide resident parking permit for me (and colleagues)I would be spending my time roaming the streets for somewhere to park whilst my client could be in need of medical attention.

I think the current resident permit cost in Southwark is around ?75.

[Frisco]

Marcus wrote: "In Fulham, the CPZ is broken up into smaller local zones that span 2/3 roads. This would avoid the problem of people at the outside of the zone still driving to the station."

Yes, that's right they do. It seems to me that discussing the issue allows people from within communities to make suggestions and to come up with imaginative solutions for problems where they live, and that gives communities the power to challenge monolithic councils bureaucracies, and particularly to prevent them from manipulating a benefit to a community in order to turn it into a cash-cow and covert taxation.

monica wrote: "Frisco where were you when they wanted to introduce the cpz near the station,i went to so many meetings and the initial consultation.Most of the residents of melbourne grove derwent grove,matham grove and east dulwich grove were sent letters,this was about 5 years ago"

I've no idea, but it could have been around the time when I was seriously ill, and perhaps thinking I wouldn't need to bother about such issues in the future, or just missed it due to that other more pressing priority. It could also be that I didn't receive anything through my letter box regarding this. I would certainly have had a view, although it may not have been the one I hold now.

However, having said that, ED (and the roads you mention) has changed a lot in five years, and other CPZs have had the effect, I believe of displacing commuter parking to this area. So, what may have been right five years ago, or for the majority of residents at that time, may well be different now. Five years also doesn't seem to short a time to review the issue, and lots of other things have happened in that time, such as the re-routing of the 37 bus. Things don't stand still, even in sleepy old ED.

[Billy]

Referring to dc's post above - the Herne Hill scheme is the one I was referring to. It works really well.

[snorky]

monica Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Snorky how long have you lived in SE22? We all

> have our reasons for not wanting cpz and your

> comment about siding with us was somewhat

> offensive. Everything the retailers do, yes we

> think of ourselves but primarily we think of the

> patrons of East Dulwich. We fought for 5 years,to

> increase parking for residents and shoppers,i

> myself go out and warn motorists not to park in

> certain areas.

I dont want to get into this again, but the traffic snarled and often dangerous LL is primarily the result of commericial interests lobbying to defend their own corner. I think its is offensive to attempt to justify this as a service to residents.

anyway, on with the show

The problem is laziness & habit in most cases - be it commuters driving from Nunhead or locals just popping to the local shops for whatever.There will of course be cases where a car is needed even for short runs, but not in the vast majority of cases.With the tsunami of dropped kerbs that seems to be flooding the area,Foxtons and their kin, there is less parking anyway.

This isnt going to change of its own accord, due to the inherent selfish nature of Commuters and business - few people have the space or opportunity to think on a wider basis about the results of their actions.

As we all know ( or should by now ) increasing motor access and parking, only increases the atractiveness of an area to new traffic not yet built into the planning equation - you can never have enough roads or parking - Liberalisation of motoring in the area will always be detrimental - if you care for your community, then you should back a tightening of access - there is no other realistic long term proposal.

As to the specifics of a CPZ - you could argue all day and never reach a conclusion, with both sides able to trot out routine, wekll rehearsed arguments such as displacement of the problems etc - something needs to be done but is only now rearing its head due to it directly affecting some areas that were usually ambivalent on the subject until it affected them directly

[kford]

In the inner city 'burbs of Melbourne, Australia, permits are given free to residents; shoppers and visitors have only an hour's grace and they have to pay-and-display. Revenue is earned from that. Can you imagine such a sensible system here?

[Keef]

Everything about Melbourne is great! I want to be in St Kilda right now :(

[EDOldie]

Sounds like a bit of a Melbourne Groove going on here

[Keef]

Ba'dam Tshhhh >:D<

Anyway, lets not get lounged, I'm not a driver, and I wish there were less cars around the streets, but not sure a CPZ is the way to go in ED.

[chief35]

CPZ is a bad idea. I lived in Notting Hill before East Dulwich and it was a nightmare as Westminster wouldn't issue temp parking permits when you had visitors so no one who came to see us could park anywhere near our flat.

I also lived on a non controlled street surrounded by controlled streets in Islington. You see, they do CPZ by street so one street may opt in and the next not. What happens is those who don't want to pay for parking outside their own house, then park around the corner on the non controlled street making it near impossible for that streets residents to park near their home, and the controlled streets are empty of cars.

East Dulwich is the first place in London i have lived (been here for 10 years) where there is no CPZ. I think it is brilliant and so do those who drive to visit me.

Long may parking be free!

[catgirl]

Well the way in which such schemes are run and managed does make a huge difference in how people view them. The one I experienced previously and sing the praises of was in Wandsworth - reasonable rates for residents parking, parking shop in the high st which was always open and efficient. Visitors permits very easy to get hold of and ?1 for a whole days parking, never once ticketed unfairly and whole area the same zone so if you lived there you could park anywhere in the area. Although I'm in favour, I do somehow doubt that Southwark would manage it as well and certainly lots of councils do seem to charge way more than Wandsworth for a resident permit. When I lived in Lambeth the (dis) organisation of the parking scheme and over zealous parking wardens made it much more tiresome, but then the same could be said of paying council tax and basically anything where you had to deal with Lambeth council. Anyway, I digress...My point is that it is possible to run CPZ schemes in a manner which causes minimum effort and hassle to the residents and at a low cost.

[SeanMacGabhann]

snorky's post says all that needs to be said

CPZ or no CPZ?

local residents parking or commuters?

Council not doing enough/too much?

All of this is tinkering at the periphery - too many people. too many cars. not enough parking spaces

But wait what's this, more and more people coming on to the roads every year??

How come so few people are prepared to think ahead a little bit on this one?

If you give up using the car, you will use the local shops MORE not less - a good thing for the area no?