Controlled Parking Zone For Dulwich?

[cazkid]

Ive Just Been Reading a few Threads and judging by some you agree that a parking scheme should be set up

i think that it would be good but only be successful for the residents of the surrounding streets and the shoppers

recently on a visit to ruislip - North west of london

they had a scheme in place,

You could Park For Free For Upto 1 Hour,

residents could park all day

any vehicle could park without a ticket from 6pm to 8am

i beleive that the parking in LL is Really bad and getting worse

just leave a comment on your thoughts!

thanks

[Mark]

My initial thoughts are questions about the Ruislip scheme:

How much does it cost if you stay over an hour?

How much does a resident's permit cost?

If my friends want to visit and park for the day, how does that work?

Does it work?

Is the parking better?

Are the residents and businesses happy about it?

What if you have more than one or two cars per house?

Will it stop the bloke in the Sony shop from selling his cars on Lordship Lane and on the pavement outside his shop?

[Rockets]

Any form of controlled parking would kill the lane as we know it - unfortunately we all have to live with the inconvenience and that is a small price to pay for the good stuff happening along it.

[Frisco]

"Any form of controlled parking would kill the lane as we know it - unfortunately we all have to live with the inconvenience and that is a small price to pay for the good stuff happening along it."

How and why would it kill the lane as we know it?

[Rockets]

Cos the council will see the good shoppers on the lane as a nice cash cow and charge about 2.50 an hour for parking and that will encourage a lot of folks to park in Sainsbury's and shop there instead, thus killing off a thriving local shopping community on the lane.

I used to live on Chesterfield Grove and the parking was bad there but only really at lunchtimes and Saturdays, which suggests the issues are those folks popping to the shops during lunch hours etc. 2.50 an hour would deter them. Oh and the Bushell's cars which I think should be banned as a matter of course!!! ;-)

[northernmonkey]

.....

[snorky]

only for foxtons.

[Frisco]

"Cos the council will see the good shoppers on the lane as a nice cash cow and charge about 2.50 an hour for parking and that will encourage a lot of folks to park in Sainsbury's and shop there instead, thus killing off a thriving local shopping community on the lane."

I'm not sure I agree with this analysis of the effect, Sainsburys sucked out the shoppers from LL over 15 years ago when it first opened, and quite a few shops closed as a result. The type of shops now on LL don't necessarily supply what Sainsburys supplies, added to the fact that there are already apparently working parking restrictions on LL at present. However, the other roads in ED without restrictions are clogged up with cars, with many of the roads towards the station probably clogged up with commuter parking, which brings no benefit to LL or the area at all. In fact it probably prevents people wanting to shop on LL from parking for short periods to do that.

"I used to live on Chesterfield Grove and the parking was bad there but only really at lunchtimes and Saturdays, which suggests the issues are those folks popping to the shops during lunch hours etc. 2.50 an hour would deter them."

I often travel to LL down Chesterfield Grove, and I think that parking has always been a problem in that road, with or without Bushells and its predecessor on that site, Winkworths. Of course it the Harrow model referred to in the first posting on this thread were to be adopted, the short-term shoppers wouldn't affected in the way you state.

[Frisco]

"Have any of you who are advocating a CPZ actually lived with one?"

More than that, I've been involved in the development of one for a local authority. I don't necessarily advocate having one, just that the alternatives to the current problems should be considered, and that discussion of potential solutions on these discussion boards shouldn't be jumped on and ridiculed by those who are for the status quo.

Also, ED is probably now the only station in Zone 2 without some kind of controlled parking around it, almost certainly making it a magnet for commuters and a nightmare for most people living in the roads within the vicinity of the station.

[Rockets]

My suggestion would be that our dear friends at Southwark council would not be as lenient as Ruislip and give an hour for free. In fact, I have never seen a first hour for free parking zone south of the river.

Guaranteed the people who advocate CPZs now are the ones who would be complaining about over-zealous metermaids enforcing the parking regulations, clamping cars and towing away. The fights I have seen in Iceland car park over the clamping of cars parked in bays designated for non-Iceland use is amazing.

Leave the lane as it is, it is a perfectly functioning commercial ecosystem and the inconvenience of not always being able to park outside your house or your preferred shop is not too much of an issue. And the parking issue will not go away if you introduce CPZs.

I am with NorthernMonkey on this one - CPZs are cash cows for councils - look how many now have night metermaid patrols and enforcement.

[Frisco]

"My suggestion would be that our dear friends at Southwark council would not be as lenient as Ruislip and give an hour for free. In fact, I have never seen a first hour for free parking zone south of the river."

Well that's because they are a relatively new idea. As far as Southwark Council is concerned, I am no lover of its parking service, but I have attended a local meeting in ED in the last six months where such a suggestion was made and listened to with interest by one of the three ED councillors. Also, without wishing to misrepresent his views here, I seem to recall that he welcomed suggestions of alternatives to what seem to be unimaginative standard Southwark CPZ rules, and ones that didn't lead to local residents being adversely affected or inconvenienced. Local pressure and influence can work, and that's already been demonstrated in ED by changes that were made to the original TfL plans for bus lanes, which allowed for no parking at all on LL.

[northernmonkey]

..

[Fuschia]

northernmonkey Wrote:>

> Rant over - but lived with controlled parking for

> 5 years and its an absolute joy not to have to any

> more!

Hear hear. Major hassle!

[Asset]

I used to live in a CPZ (just off Walworth Rd, near a school). I lived there for many years before it became a CPZ and it was a joy when it happened. Prior to it happening the streets were overrun with commuter parkers and if I went out in the morning I could kiss goodbye to parking anywhere near my house for the rest of the day.

I now live between ED and ND stations and conicidentally, next to a school. I have to plan my day so I'm not leaving in my car and returning at school time (3.30 - 5.30) if I want to be able to park near my house. I might add that the street is empty of parked cars during school holidays yet during term time it can be difficult to park.

I have spoken to the school who have told me they would fight any application for a CPZ.

Personally I would pay the residents' fee to be guaranteed the ability to park within 100 metres of my house.

[tiddles]

I lived in an area which campaigned against a CPZ (no need for it) but I have friends near ED station who desperately need it. i am in favour of the continued 20 - 30 mins on LL but maybe the selected "pay" times as in herne hill. I am very averse to any system that gives the local council a chance to start charging premium rate for half an hours shopping, so completely support resistence to controlled parking (it is just another revenue earner = nothing to do with resident's convenience) but I can appreciate the frustration of residents who cannot park anywhere near their home. (foxtons dontcha hate them - ok lounge me lounge me I don't care.....)

[Frisco]

"Also think its unlikely that any commuters from outside the area would drive to East Dulwich station to catch the train given that the service really isn't that great - surely you'd pick a better station, so then you're back in the situation that its people who just live a bit further away, but still in East Dulwich, and who are therefore likely to be eligible for their own permits unless the scheme was very small."

They don't because all of the 'better' station have parking restrictions that make them unattractive or impossible for use by commuters. I've lived in the same house now for 20 years, and I'm not too far from the station, and I've been seeing commuters parking in this street for most of that time. How do I know they're commuters? Their regularity tends to give them away. Plus there's a lot of 'area' between the stations in the Dulwich area, so they don't necessarily need to be from outside of it.

jan t wrote: "i am in favour of the continued 20 - 30 mins on LL but maybe the selected "pay" times as in herne hill. I am very averse to any system that gives the local council a chance to start charging premium rate for half an hours shopping, so completely support resistence to controlled parking (it is just another revenue earner = nothing to do with resident's convenience)"

These are my thoughts too, and community involvement is the key, rather than just letting Southwark Council and its money grubbing privatised parking service take control.

[monica]

Frisco Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "My suggestion would be that our dear friends at

> Southwark council would not be as lenient as

> Ruislip and give an hour for free. In fact, I have

> never seen a first hour for free parking zone

> south of the river."

>

> Well that's because they are a relatively new

> idea. As far as Southwark Council is concerned, I

> am no lover of its parking service, but I have

> attended a local meeting in ED in the last six

> months where such a suggestion was made and

> listened to with interest by one of the three ED

> councillors. Also, without wishing to misrepresent

> his views here, I seem to recall that he welcomed

> suggestions of alternatives to what seem to be

> unimaginative standard Southwark CPZ rules, and

> ones that didn't lead to local residents being

> adversely affected or inconvenienced. Local

> pressure and influence can work, and that's

> already been demonstrated in ED by changes that

> were made to the original TfL plans for bus lanes,

> which allowed for no parking at all on LL.

Lordship lane traders association which totaled 3 of us,myself, jay from greetings and a marvelous resident fought to lift the restrictions on lordship lane,because they were nonsensical. Iv been a trader here for over 7 years owner of a shop here 10years, and i have seen the changes from very quite to very popular which has been amazing. Of course its not perfect and the parking is an issue. When TFL decided to put a pilot bus lane on LL 5 years ago we all opposed it,but the pilot scheme went ahead,with no parking on Northbound LL from 7am to 7pm and 30 minutes southbound LL. At the same time they wanted to introduce the cpz because residents near the station were understandably fed up with parking commuters.

After a long struggle with Mr tanna the resident respected chemist and party candidate supporting us we eventually had the restrictions on LL northbound reduced to no parking between 7am-10am which obviously makes sense because people are commuting that time in the morning, and parking on southbound still for 3o minutes. It was only 3 years ago we asked southwark to pay for the parking signs on LL so people could understand the parking restrictions,after 3 attempts at getting the signs to explain in clear english what the parking restrictions are,we have the estate agents parking all along LL. We have spoken to the agents and have asked them please do not park on the lane,we need to keep it clear for shoppers,and in their defence they have been cooperating. Now we have talks of CPZ again, we fought them once and there was only 3 of us,hopefully from a retailers point of view we wont have to do it again.

[Wino]

NO No No

The reasons (in no particular order):-

The council will oversell the number of resident permits so that we will all be fighting for the same spaces as happens now.

There could be fewer parking spaces than now as special boxes/lines will be painted onto the relevant streets and from past experience these tend to "encroach" on the available space.

Our lovely streets (by most London borough standards) will become cluttered with warning signs and (potentially) ticket machines. May seem trivial, but it is a pleasure to walk around East Dulwich and look down a street and see nothing more than lamp posts, trees and the occasional dog turd. Next time you are in Central London, or the wonderful borough of Lambeth take a look at a residential street. Cluttered, messy and not very "homely."

The enforcement will be tendered to whom ever offers the Council the biggest "return." This will mean that you will be penalised at the slightest infraction. Yes, you will be able to dispute and undoubtedly win each and every time, but this takes up your time, your energy. Having to do this every other month when you or your visitors forget to display a permit, parks over their time, etc etc will become beyond tedious.

I have lived in East Dulwich for the past 7-8 years. I live off Northcross road and regularly use my car. Sometimes I can park right out the front of my house, sometimes a few doors down and on the odd occasion I have to park in another street. I have to take in account that if I return home during the Northcross road Mosque prayer times I may have to park further away than at other times. On Saturday if I return during the day I may have to circle several times or park a block away, but this is only for a few minutes. The parked cars at "peak times" seem to have a fairly regular turnover.

To conclude, I sometimes suffer mild inconvenience if I use my car but it is bearable. I see no point in being forced to pay for a permit to probably not see much difference in what I have to deal with now.

[Frisco]

"At the same time they wanted to introduce the cpz because residents near the station were understandably fed up with parking commuters."

Really? I've lived reasonably close to the station on road that's regularly used by commuter for parking for 20+ years and I have never been aware of a proposal for a CPZ in this area. As I think I've indicated, I don't necessarily want to standard CPZ to be put in place, but I would like a way to be found of stopping the commuter parking.

"Our lovely streets (by most London borough standards) will become cluttered with warning signs and (potentially) ticket machines. May seem trivial, but it is a pleasure to walk around East Dulwich and look down a street and see nothing more than lamp posts, trees and the occasional dog turd. Next time you are in Central London, or the wonderful borough of Lambeth take a look at a residential street. Cluttered, messy and not very "homely."

That's funny, I take a measure of the positive effect the CPZ put in place by Wandsworth Council around Balham Station, and in my view the measures put in place there have done nothing to distract from the Victorian/Edwardian streets, and I consider myself to be as much aware of these issues as anyone else. Again, whatever might be put in place can be influenced by the community, but as far as I'm concerned, maintaining the status quo around the station is not the answer. However, neither is a bog-standard council imposed CPZ.

[kford]

No no no no no no no. Lived in one before which actually caused more grief after it was introduced. Just a cash-cow that won't stop LL parking problems, as most issues arise with evening diners and weekend and evening shoppers whose parking falls outside the patrolled hours.

I already pay to have my car on the road through vehicle licence duty.

[catgirl]

I used to live in a controlled parking zone - lived there for several years before it was introduced too. It made a huge difference, to the good, to parking and car use in our street which wasn't even that close to the station. It may not seem logical but it did seem to get rid of a large number of vehicles which previously parked in our road every single day and then suddenly disappeared. It was definitely worth the ?45 a year. I'd actually like to have more wardens patrolling around as maybe it would stop people parking on yellow lines over dropped kerbs, thus making it very difficult for wheelchair users or anyone pusing a buggy (obv less of an issue) to cross the road or parking over my driveway meaning that I can't get my one small car out on the few occasions when I want to use it. (not to drive to llane I might add)

I agree that part of the problem is inevitable when big houses become 4 flats etc but that's not the whole story. Our next door neighbours have 2 cars and a van for 3 adults in the house and next door to them have 5 cars. If people had to pay for every vehicle they might actually give a bit more thought to the number of cars they own and do us all and the environment a favour!

[SeanMacGabhann]

alas catgirl, if they have forked out for that many vehicles then they won't have a problem paying whatever it costs to park 'em up on the street

they will still bitch mightily about the congestion charge and speeding fines however

[Carrie]

Frisco, you probably live on the SE15 side of Grove Vale - the council's barmy idea some years ago was to introduce the cpz on the SE22 roads near the station which would have made the life of those living on the roads on the SE15 side even more unbearable than they are now.

Parking anywhere near my house on a weekday is difficult, if we move the car before 9am we know we won't be able to park again until after about 6.30 when the commuters start coming home - but weekends are lovely - I could park a juggernaut outside my house on a Saturday if I wanted to.

[Frisco]

"No no no no no no no."

I see we've got the role models for stroppy teenagers in.

I've seen no coherent arguments presented to make me change my view, and it's been changed already from being anti any parking controls in ED a few years ago. In my view, at the very least they should be in place within a 500m radius of the station.

[kford]

Around a station, near a school, I can just about see a justification as this involves daytime parking issues.

But beware, fines make up a big proportion of a council's parking 'profit', so those guys buzzing around on scooters will be issuing PCNs for the slightest infringement.

Although there would be no excuse for parking outside of our allocated zone without a permit, or on a yellow line at the wrong time, or thoughtlessly blocking a ramp or an access road, I guarantee even the most cautious driver will get tickets.

From my time in a CPZ, my neigbours and I recieved PCNs for the following spurious reasons:

In the five minutes we were inside scratching off the dates on the day pass (?15/book valid only for two years) to place on a relative's car

For having one wheel over the white line at the end of the CPZ (even though the other wheel was in).

Clamped and removed because the disc fell from the screen while we were away on hols in hot summer of 2003 (in the plastic holder provided by Lambeth) because the permit number (but not the date) was slightly obscured. ?280 to get the car back.

On a buider's van in the time it took for him to carry his stuff to our door and before we could give him his vistor's pass

None were successfully appealed.

Be careful what you wish for.