A message to the morons..............

[Moos]

What sad stories.

[Otta]

Andrew1011 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Snowy, thanks for the further information.

> Unfortunately there will always be the proportion

> who doubt that something is happening when it

> patently is, or who dress their doubt up as

> interest in getting more information which they

> can then minimise.

>

> Have a good holiday.

I think you might be aiming that at me. If so, you have me wrong. I'm not doubting anything, just trying to address the balance.

I promise you, I know a bit about disabilities.

[Andrew1011]

Otta Wrote:

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> I think you might be aiming that at me. If so, you

> have me wrong. I'm not doubting anything, just

> trying to address the balance.

If the cap fits, etc.

This is a thread about a local disabled person having been abused. It's not about addressing the balance, even if 'balance' actually needed to be addressed or restored here.

> I promise you, I know a bit about disabilities.

Clearly not as much as you think you do, especially if you didn't know that harassment of and hate crimes against disabled people are rising. The fact that there are people "are very kind and helpful" to disabled people doesn't really help the victims or detract from the fact there's a number who aren't. The fact is that there is an increasing number of disabled people who are victims of disability related harassment or hate crime.

Anyway, I'm not going to detract any more from the serious issue raised by the OP of this thread raised or engage in a pretty worthless 'more people are nice to disabled people than harass them' type debate.

[helena handbasket]

Andrew1011, I don't know Otta in real life but based on what he has posted on here over the years I do know that he works with disabled and has always been one to inform and enlighten on the topic. For whatever reason you have decided that he's minimizing the struggles of the disabled, which he has never done on this forum.

He's not being petty, just trying to keep some perspective. He's on your side, give him a break!

[Otta]

Thanks Helena.

Just to add, that I also have a disabled mother, and have a disability myself (although I don't count myself as a disabled person really, but the freedom pass is nice) :)-D

So there you go Andrew. I have every symapthy with the lady that the OP talked about, but not every disabled person would share your points of view, because they are not definied by their disability, as I am sure you are not.

[Andrew1011]

helena handbasket Wrote:

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> He's not being petty, just trying to keep some

> perspective. He's on your side, give him a break!

Thanks for your input. However, as a disabled person who also very actively volunteers with "the disabled" (call me PC if you like), I feel perfectly able to give an opinion when I sense detraction from the issue raised in the OP and the wider issue of and increase in hate crime, and to decide, in the context of what's said on a forum, who's "on my side".

Absolutely no one is or was saying that the majority of people are not kind and considerate towards disabled people but it does smack of minimising the negative effect of those who aren't, and particularly in the context of appearing to query that hate crime is in the increase in order to unnecessarily try to "keep some some perspective", which also suggests that perspective had been lost.

If the subject of this thread was burglary in ED no one would be popping up saying that the majority of people's experience is good because they're not burgled, we'd probably be all acknowledging the experience of the victim or victims and empathising due to thinking that: 'I could be next'.

[Otta]

Also, just to make clear that I'm not denying that some disabled people suffer at the hands of arseholes, both hatred and discrimination. I just don't like the idea of painting our society as generally anti disabled.

Lots of people I work with get daily assistance from strangers on the street, and that is the positive side of it.

That is not to deny that the negative side exists.

[Otta]

Are you having a pop at Helena now, for missing out a "the" before disabled?

It was probably a typo.

[helena handbasket]

Sorry Andrew, hasty typing. Of course I meant people with disabilities and not "the disabled".

Looking at the posts on this thread people are genuinely shocked and disgusted by the what the OP has described and are interested in learning more about the increase in hate crimes against people with disabilities. This could be a way to positively educate people. There's no sense in vilifying the people who care.

[helena handbasket]

Good grief.

[Andrew1011]

Otta Wrote:

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> I just don't like the idea of painting our society as

> generally anti disabled.

Which absolutely no one did or has done.

In response to your other point, regardless of whether it was a typo, terminology and language are things that have impact. I'm perfectly free as a disabled person to make my own view on that clear. Or perhaps you'd prefer it if I stayed silent and was quietly thankful for the condescension and kindness of strangers?*

Otta you remind me of someone. You're not a retired Lambeth social work manager by any chance, are you?

*It's not compulsory to answer that by the way.

[Otta]

No I'm not. What I am trying to say, is that your terminology is fine, but it doesn't mean that any other terminology is wrong.

You call yourself a Disabled Person. For me, that means the disability defines you first and foremost.

I'd much rather be known as a person with a disability (if the disability had to be mentioned at all). An individual with his own mind, who happens to have a disability.

I'm not saying your preference is wrong though, just that I'd use something else.

Basically Andrew, you seem to actively look for reasons to be offended, and label people as anti disabled. There are a hell of a lot of people out there with disabilities, who have a wide range of opinions, and some of them would run a mile from the sort of opinions you're voicing. The problem is, you put your personal opinion across as if you are the voice of disability, and frankly, you're not.

[Andrew1011]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> No I'm not. What I am trying to say, is that your

> terminology is fine, but it doesn't mean that any

> other terminology is wrong.

If people are aware of the effect of their use of certain, particularly impersonal or dehumanising, terminology then they can consider whether or not to continue using it. Of course not everyone is capable of that reflection or will do it.

>

> You call yourself a Disabled Person. For me, that

> means the disability defines you first and

> foremost.

I refer to myself as a disabled person (without capitals) in appropriate circumstances and when and where it is appropriate, which is by no means all the time. Where exactly is it appropriate to mention being disabled if not on a thread about disability and an incidence of harassment of someone who's disabled?

> Basically Andrew, you seem to actively look for

> reasons to be offended, and label people as anti

> disabled. There are a hell of a lot of people out

> there with disabilities, who have a wide range of

> opinions, and some of them would run a mile from

> the sort of opinions you're voicing. The problem

> is, you put your personal opinion across as if you

> are the voice of disability, and frankly, you're

> not.

I'm only really offended by people who appear to actively seek to minimise harassment and hate crime, possibly due to it being something that's beyond their own direct experience. I am very involved in a disabled community organisation that works with and for disabled people and which tries to represent their views and interests based people's experiences and what's reported to it, including increasing incidences of harassment and hate crime. I don't claim that I or it represent the views of all disabled people. However, I think I can possibly claim to probably have access to the bigger picture, have slightly wider experience than my own and have more primary sources of information than most here do.

Anyway, entertaining as this is, this is distracting me from getting on with far more important things. I'm not particularly radical or militant in my views on disability but I have to confess that I now find it easier to understand how and why many disabled people are. It's clear that we're not going to agree on this so I think I'm now going to do what snowy intended to do once he'd provided the information and made his point.

[Otta]

I'm only really offended by people who

appear to actively seek to minimise

harassment and hate crime,

Never my intention, and sorry if you feel that's what I've been doing.

However, I

think I can possibly claim to probably have

access to the bigger picture, have slightly

wider experience than my own and have

more primary sources of information than

most here do.

Fair enough, and I think I can make a similar claim.

I never set out to disagree with, or offend anyone, and I apologise if I have.

[new mother]

I always always make an effort to help people who look like they might fancy it. I do this to the embarrassment of my husband who is more "British" is reticent about approaching people and is always on about how people will ask if they need help. My view is that they shouldn't have to ask. Who is right or more often right on this? The last thing I want to do to imply that someone isn't managing when he or she is taking pride in being independent. :-(

To lighten the thread, I once got chatting to a lady in a wheelchair at the bottom of a quite a serious hill. I and my then boyfriend pushed her all the way up it, having a good chat and taking about 20 mins.(as I said it was a serious hill.) when we had said our goodbyes, we went back down when we found her carer going crazy with worry. Apparently she liked to give him the slip sometimes but he then stated that he could relax to some extent as, of course, she cldnt possibly be further away than the bottom of the hill. I had to go back up and show him exactly where we had left her and offer our profuse apologies. I admired her guts though.

[tallulah71]

Mark clearly wasn't there to 'man up' when it happened.....mo...no, I won't.

[peckham parkie]

Hello Kid

As Tallulah suggests, I was not there to sort it out. If I had been I would have done my best to ensure the abuser was brought to justice.

If anyone does see this happening again, please call the police. You can tell them what's right too!

BTW. Spoke to the lady concerned on Friday. She has read the forum and is grateful for all the support. She has also noticed many more people saying hello to her. Big thanks to those of you who have greeted her, especially the person who shouted "It's electric!" out of their car window to her, that raised a chuckle!

Mark Newell

Park liaison Officer

Peckham Rye Park

07940 743929

[email protected]