What happened to the possible extension of the 63 bus?

[HannahSE23]

I would be hugely in favour. It would also stop some of the nightmare commuter parking in HOP.

[Bic Basher]

>

> Why is the frequency in the ?core? section more

> important than it is here? Surely the answer to

> bad reliability on the whole route is to put on

> more buses on the whole route.

The core section is between Kings Cross and Peckham Rye. In particular, it's important to keep a regular service especially between Old Kent Road Tesco and Peckham Post Office (North Peckham Estate area) where the 63 is the main route into central London. Where as between Peckham Rye and Honor Oak, sees the least amount of passenger usage.

Forest Hill Road is also served by an additional 6 buses per hour on route 363 which connect with Peckham Rye station (part of London Overground from December) and Elephant and Castle.

Also, Honor Oak Park station is in Zone 3, where as Peckham Rye is in Zone 2, which is cheaper for regular travelcard users.

To make it clear, I'd like to see Forest Hill Road conencted with HOP station, but not at the expense of a poorer service on the 63, which seems to be a simplistic solution to a difficult issue. Ideally a single decker route would run between Peckham and Brockley Rise, but I can't see TfL having such a short route viable.

[Applespider]

the-e-dealer Wrote:

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> As a commuter I look for the quickest route- I

> think most do so a 20 minute walk rules out the

> Honor Oak Route.

> It takes about an hour for me to get to and from

> East Dulwich to Central London each day .

To play devil's advocate here, the quickest commuting route from East Dulwich to Central London is generally on two wheels (bike or motorbike/moped) rather than four.

Interesting idea, Bic Basher, on the ideal of having a single decker route between Peckham and HOP/Brockley Rise although suspect we'd hit the same problem of space to turn around at Brockley Rise. Is there anywhere else either before Peckham or beyond HOP that people have a burning desire to go to that might better justify such a route while allowing it to be short enough to limit delays?

[neilson99]

James Barber Wrote:

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> Extending the number 63 bus to Honor Oak station

> has been cmapianged for by both local Labour and

> Lib Dems for a number of years.

> Obviously makes lots of sense especially since the

> East London Line has a lot more passengers than

> predicted when the number 63 was dismissed as

> marginally outside cost benefit on the low

> forecast ELL train useage.

>

> I would be curious how Val Shawcross intends to

> pay for the extension if elected. Average bus

> route receives ?4M subsidy pa.

Well If Boris hasn't frittered away #8million on his new route master bus that 1. could've been paid for by the private sector and 2. will do nothing apart from massage his already giant blonde ego, we could've had the money to extend the route for at least the next 2 years! What an utter waste! I'd be interested to see the cost benefit on this (tho I'm sure some highly paid consultant was brought into make sure the right answer was found.)

Other than that, if Southwark council stop burning our taxes with their ridiculous traffic "calming" and road "improvement" schemes that we have seen throughout Peckham Rye and East Dulwich over the last few years then there would be a few quid there to spend on something that would actually make a difference to people in a positive way.

[Bic Basher]

Some thoughts based on previous changes to the 63.

One of the reasons why the 363 was introduced was to solve reilability issues on the section of route between Honor Oak and Crystal Palace which suffered from an irregular service which was normally late. I remember waiting 30/45 mins in Peckham for a CP bus when bus after bus went to Honor Oak.

Shortening the route improved the service overnight and passengers in Wood Vale/Underhill Road/LL shouldn't have to wait more than 10/15 mins for a bus into Peckham and beyond, although they did lose their through service to Kings Cross.

So extending the 63 alas for 4 stops would cause problems when it's most needed by us, during the morning and evening peaks without changes to the route over all unless the route was shortened at the Central London end of the route. Which I don't think would be popular.

[indiepanda]

dbboy Wrote:

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> Over the last 5 - 6 weeks in the morning my

> experience has been that the 63 has been

> terminated at either Ludgate Circus or Clerkenwell

> Green when I've wanted to get to Kings Cross. On

> the return I have noticed a lot of buses being

> terminated at Peckham Rye. The reason is buses

> running late. Amy extension will further

> exacerbate this situation.

Yes, I've found this too - and lots of buses being terminated at Peckham Library or one night Elephant and Castle. Never an apology for booting us off either. I've been using the bus for a couple of years and the service is definitely getting worse. The roadworks round Blackfriars haven't been helping.

[henryb]

The cross river tram would have helped the pressure on the 63. Sadly canned by Boris. Another reason to vote Ken.

[Bic Basher]

henryb Wrote:

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> The cross river tram would have helped the

> pressure on the 63.

Agreed, the Peckham branch would have done that, although for us in SE22, it could have led to a reduction in buses on the 63/363 in reaction to the change in passenger usage or as what happened in Croydon when Tramlink was introduced that feeder buses were introduced where passengers could board the bus, then transfer at the tram stop instead of going the whole way by bus.

[James Barber]

Hi henryb,

I think Boris and Ken are different sides of the same coin. Ken promised the earth with projects such as Cross River Tram but allocated no funding - sham projects. Boris has a poverty of ambition and cancelled such projects stopping the pretence but not coming up with any of his own big ideas. The one thing he is remembered for the Boris bikes were being suggested by everyone cross party for years.

Can we believe Ken will produce a magic wand to extend this bus route...clearly more likely than Boris but sadly I wouldn't bet on either of them.

[Gavin Edwards]

James, the pledge to extend the 63 bus route will be delivered. Peckham Rye's Labour Councillors will work with Val Shawcross to ensure that it does. Instead of practising your depressing brand of political pessimism on this thread, maybe you could get behind Labour's campaign? Anyone can register their support here

Local people want this extension and that it would be a sensible way of linking up transport in our area.

[Marmora Man]

Political promises - easy to make, difficult to keep. I truly doubt that the 63 extension will ever be a priority - if it were easy and low / no cost as its proponents suggest it would have already been implemented.

To even make this a political issue is ridiculous. It is a reasonable request but one that should be susceptible to an objective assessment regarding costs, practicality and potential benefit, not whether we vote Red or Blue, Ken or Boris or Monster Raving Loony Party.

[dave]

Agree entirely with everything Marmora Man says above. To turn this into a he said/she said party political issue is daft. An objective study, maybe a pilot and a cost/benefit analysis (including the impact of the Overground extension via Peckham Rye) would be much better than everything we're seeing at the moment.

[dbboy]

Gavin - Just answer the question, what are the names of the roads where you knocked at 109 houses/flats?

What you have done is an attempt to stoke up support. Where is the independant official consultation? NONE

Can't you understand THE ROADS WILL NOT COPE WITH ADDITIONAL TRAFFFIC AND CAUSE GRIDLOCK. Why don't people use the P12 if they want to get to HOP station like every body else instead of wanting a special bus service. In fact why don't you look to either improve the P12 bus service or run a every third P12 as a shuttle service from the Kings Arms through to HOP station which would satisfy your desire.

[Peckhampoet]

I travel to Highbury and Islington every day from HOP and use the P12 from Nunhead to get there and back. The overground is fantastic but the frequency of the P12 makes the journey longer than it need be. In the evening, the P12 seems to regularly leave early from HOP so I miss it. In the winter that sometimes meant sitting in the cold and dark and waiting up to 45minutes for the next one. Not fun at 930pm.

There is no alternative from HOP and I do not have a car and cannot afford a taxi. A 63 would be a fantastic addition to this route. However I know that during the morning and evening rush hour the road in HOP is gridlock as traffic stacks up at the lights at Brockley Rise. An extended 63 service would add to this gridlock and the service would soon fall down.

My vote is for an improved P12 bus frequency and how about a re-routing of the P4 - maybe it could go along Wood Vale and link with the 63/363 service there? Though that would mean the folk at the top of the hill would lose a bus service.

I am a committed bus user and passionate about my beloved P12. It's a great route and I use it every day and in both directions. Being able to text from the bus stop and find out when the next one is due has taken away the stress of unknowing and the new buses are more comfortable. Just need some more from Brockley Rise in the evening and I will be happy.

[Gavin Edwards]

Marmora Man and Dave - Fair point. I know some people get turned off by party politics. Understandale, particularly as the tone of council politics in Southwark is sometimes hysterical. However, there are times when a bit of party politics is helpful to a local cause. We are now in a situation whereby the Labour candidate is pledging to make an important change to transport in our area. That simply would not have happened without a little bit of politics. It's a straightforward choice: if you want the 63 extended, vote Labour. If you don't, vote for one of the other candidates.

Dboy - "What do we want? An official consultation! When do we want it? Now!" I despair. If that was our pledge we'd be derided. I'm sure there would be consultation on the details of any change, but not the principle. That consultation is called an election. I don't believe that the extension will cause gridlock and writing in capital letters isn't going to convince me that it will.

It's noticeable that on our online survey 100% of people have said they do want the 63 extended. There is a "No" option. Feel free to have your say here.

Finally, you've misread the post on door knocking. We were out on the nunhead side of the ward last Sat. I was just giving that as an example of our activity. (Although some people are interested in the extension there, it's fair to say most interest is on the East Dulwich\Honor Oak side.)

[the-e-dealer]

If the 63 went to Honor Oak I wouldn't need to drive to the station. That's 2 fewer car journeys a day!

Improving Public Transport reduces traffic. Are you saying if all the trains and buses stopped we would have quiet roads?

[James Barber]

Local Lib Dems have long said we think the no.63 should be extended to Honor Oak espeically with the East London Line phase 1 being such a resoundinbg success in passenger numbers.

However real practicle problems.

Could the no.63 still go all the way to Kings Cross without the service becoming more eratic?

What would be cut to fund this?

I really think a yes or no answer without answering these two questions is disingenuous.

[the-e-dealer]

1. Yes But another 1 or two buses would be needed

2. Cut the Flippin Bozzo Bikes Scheme.

[Gavin Edwards]

James,

So local Lib Dems are in favour, but can't say yes or no? Odd.

By the way, still not a single "No" to extending the 63 route on our online survey.

Gavin

[the-e-dealer]

Sounds like sitting on the fence to me, again!

[Siduhe]

I would certainly be in favour of the extension, but have concerns about the impact on the frequency and reliability of the overall service. I've been catching the 63 to/from the FHT stop on and off for five years and the service has definitely a) become much more popular (particularly with school children) at peak times and b) become much less reliable . The bus is often full after the first two or three stops at peak times (although it does clear out around Peckham Rye station). It's also not unusual for buses to be cut off coming the other way in Peckham with no explanation and then a 12-20 minute wait for the next bus with space to get on.

If the extension can be achieved without delaying existing services, great. Will the frequency of buses have to increase in order to achieve this?

Edited for spelling

[henryb]

According to the time table during the day it takes 54 min for the 63 bus to get from King?s Cross to the Honor Oak and the P12 8 mins to get to Brockley Rise from Ivydale Road (which is further than Honor Oak stop). So it would increase the total route time by less than 8 min but say to 64 min for arguments sake which is approx 15%

There are 10 busses an hour/once every 6 min. Assuming driver break times are the same a 15% increase in total route time would be mean 15% increase in the gap between buses so roughly a change to it being once every 7 min or an extra bus and a half to keep the gap the same. Doesn?t seem so bad. How much does an extra bus cost to operate?

[the-e-dealer]

Ken promised the Overground Extension and Delivered it. Boris has promised a low cost flying doughnut on a cable - which we have ended up paying for. Buses that cost ?8 Million pounds and some bicycles.

[James Barber]

Hi henryb,

When we were asking about whether the no.42 could be extended to run along East dulwich Grove, lordship Lane , Sainsbury's - long story.

Village ward councillors were told extra ?250,000 pa revenue for one extra bus in the timetable.

Presume double decker would cost more but the earleir quoted figure of ?500,000 pa revenue would sound about right.

OR zero change in costs if it terminates similar distance before Kings Cross.

So, yes in favour of extending it to Honor Oak but how this is achieved is importatn.

Hi Gavin,

How would Ken/Val extend the no.63?

[henryb]

Is ?500,000 the total cost or subsidy over fares. It seems like a lot for the latter - the 63 takes a lot of fares.