What happened to the possible extension of the 63 bus?

[dbboy]

Which area exactly have you knocked lots of doors in?

Gavin Edwards Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi,

>

> I've knocked on lots of doors in the area and

> spoke to lots of people and it is very clear to me

> that this would be a popular change. When we put

> out a leaflet about this 18 months ago, we

> received hundreds of responses.

>

> Boris Johnson has made clear to us that he opposes

> the extension, so of course people on the 63 route

> could vote for him is they want to retain the

> status quo.

>

> I suppose it is easy to question the motives of

> any person arguing for a change. The only thing I

> can say in response is that Labour Councillors

> have been listening, and now we're responding to

> what people have said. Even if you're cynical

> about politics, that can only be a good thing.

>

> Gavin Edwards

> Peckham Rye Labour Blog

> https://twitter.com/#!/GavinEdwards77

[indiepanda]

dbboy Wrote:

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> Which area exactly have you knocked lots of doors

> in?

Good question! I use the 63 most days and if anyone has knocked on my door I wasn't home when they did.

[Gavin Edwards]

ellie glad to hear you're in favour.

dbboy/indiepanda - as councillors for Peckham Rye ward that's where we do the majority of our door knocking. So for example, when we were out door knocking yesterday morning we spoke to 69 people (out of 109 doors knocked on). In the last month we've spoken to 339 people. There are currently 9,794 registered voters in Peckham Rye ward and since we were selected as council candidates at the end of 2009 we've spoken to 5,208 of the current registered voters on the doorstep. We'll have actually spoken to more people than this but every year about 400-500 people move out of the ward (to be replaced with new voters).

So, some people may never have spoken to us, on the other hand some will have spoken to us two or three times. In addition, I appreciate that Peckham Rye ward doesn't just cover parts of Honor Oak and East Dulwich that are interested in the 63 bus and there will be roads not in Peckham Rye ward that are interested. However, we certainly cover plenty of roads where plenty of people have raised this issue with us. And, as I say above, when we delivered a leaflet about the extension about 18 months ago we received hundreds of responses - more so than any other survey or leaflet we have put out.

Gavin Edwards

www.peckhamryelabour.blogspot.com

[dbboy]

Gavin - Just answer the question, what are the names of the roads where you knocked at 109 houses/flats?

What you have done is an attempt to stoke up support. Where is the independant official consultation? NONE

Can't you understand THE ROADS WILL NOT COPE WITH ADDITIONAL TRAFFFIC AND CAUSE GRIDLOCK. Why don't people use the P12 if they want to get to HOP station like every body else instead of wanting a special bus service. In fact why don't you look to either improve the P12 bus service or run a every third P12 as a shuttle service from the Kings Arms through to HOP station which would satisfy your desire.

[trizza]

dbboy Wrote:

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> Gavin - Just answer the question, what are the

> names of the roads where you knocked at 109

> houses/flats?

>

> What you have done is an attempt to stoke up

> support. Where is the independant official

> consultation? NONE

>

> Can't you understand THE ROADS WILL NOT COPE WITH

> ADDITIONAL TRAFFFIC AND CAUSE GRIDLOCK. Why don't

> people use the P12 if they want to get to HOP

> station like every body else instead of wanting a

> special bus service. In fact why don't you look to

> either improve the P12 bus service or run a every

> third P12 as a shuttle service from the Kings Arms

> through to HOP station which would satisfy your

> desire.

Which roads can't handle the traffic? Forest Hill Road? The 63 and 363 use the route at the moment and all that is being proposed is that the route be extended.

I live just off Forest Hill Road and strongly support this. For those living in Honor Oak it would provide a great link over the hill as well.

ddboy - why don't you think a lot of people in peckham rye ward would support a direct link to the ELL?

For what it's worth I haven't had a visit from any of the labour councillors but I have had a leaflet through the door.

[anna_r]

Agree with all of this. We live on Mundania and strongly support the extension.

trizza Wrote:

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>

> Which roads can't handle the traffic? Forest Hill

> Road? The 63 and 363 use the route at the moment

> and all that is being proposed is that the route

> be extended.

>

> I live just off Forest Hill Road and strongly

> support this. For those living in Honor Oak it

> would provide a great link over the hill as well.

>

> ddboy - why don't you think a lot of people in

> peckham rye ward would support a direct link to

> the ELL?

>

> For what it's worth I haven't had a visit from any

> of the labour councillors but I have had a leaflet

> through the door.

[Anna M]

I can't imagine why anyone would want to oppose it. HOP is now a major transport link around here and 63 is major bus route - it makes sense to connect them - especially when it is a four more stops.

[Bic Basher]

While I'm pleased Labour are behind the 63 extension, before this could happen, it's important that the local infrastructure can cope. This simply wouldn't be the case at Brockley Rise where the P12 and 172 currently terminate.

You could remove a route, such as the P12 and termiante it at the current 63 terminus, yet then the residents north of Brenchley Gardens would lose their direct connection to HOP station.

A more praticial solution where possibly the P12 could run along Forest Hill Road after serving Nunhead and the council estate to the north of the cemetary and not Brenchley Gardens may be a better solution.

Incidentally 63/363 passengers will be able to connect with the Overground from December once the new ELL extension opens serving Peckham Rye.

[henryb]

The 63 could still terminate at the old Honor Oak stop - just do a loop around Brockley Rise and come back. No expensive new infrastructure would be needed.

[Barred]

Would like the extension but if it means Ken I'll walk

[Applespider]

I've asked this before without a response but if there is an extension to the 63 then what would happen to the N63 which currently picks up the 363 route and runs through to Crystal Palace? Would it continue or would we lose the N63 service through to Crystal Palace?

I'd also been led to believe that the stand at Brockley Rise wouldn't be able to cope with the numbers of 63s given the other services that already use it so would be interested to know how that problem has been resolved.

It would be good to know that the appropriate feasibility studies on extending the route have been done rather than discovering post-election that we've just been used for political point-scoring since there's no practical way to actually extend the route.

[henryb]

> I'd also been led to believe that the stand at

> Brockley Rise wouldn't be able to cope with the

> numbers of 63s given the other services that

> already use it so would be interested to know how

> that problem has been resolved.

The 63 could still terminate at the old Honor Oak stop - just do a loop around Brockley Rise and come back. No expensive new infrastructure would be needed.

[the-e-dealer]

I don't think the London Overground runs at night so the N63 would not be affected. As for the roads coping I think LRT think work would be needed to allow buses to to get up the hill and round the tight junctions. Nothing to do with the volume of traffic. I've seen learner bus drivers in Double deckers go up and round the hill so it cant be that hard.

[dbboy]

anna_r / trizza,

Honor Oak Park would not cope with the additional traffic.

You are kidding me that you can't either walk from Mundania to Brenchley Gardens and get the P12 or walk to HOP station!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anna_r Wrote:

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> Agree with all of this. We live on Mundania and

> strongly support the extension.

>

> trizza Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> >

> > Which roads can't handle the traffic? Forest

> Hill

> > Road? The 63 and 363 use the route at the

> moment

> > and all that is being proposed is that the

> route

> > be extended.

> >

> > I live just off Forest Hill Road and strongly

> > support this. For those living in Honor Oak it

> > would provide a great link over the hill as

> well.

> >

> > ddboy - why don't you think a lot of people in

> > peckham rye ward would support a direct link to

> > the ELL?

> >

> > For what it's worth I haven't had a visit from

> any

> > of the labour councillors but I have had a

> leaflet

> > through the door.

[mrcee]

In theory below sounds like an option but has anyone looked at feasiblity of this as this would mean people taking the bus down from HOP station would need to change buses at Honor Oak Stop meaning that they potentially need to pay twice.

As some others are suggesting before we buy into election promises lets make sure the promise can get realised and i would hope anyone with the power to implement such a change has already done their homework before stating they will make this change

henryb Wrote:

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> The 63 could still terminate at the old Honor Oak

> stop - just do a loop around Brockley Rise and

> come back. No expensive new infrastructure would

> be needed.

[Bic Basher]

henryb Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The 63 could still terminate at the old Honor Oak

> stop - just do a loop around Brockley Rise and

> come back. No expensive new infrastructure would

> be needed.

So you'd expect a driver not to have a break after driving from Kings Cross, probably stuck in traffic along the route, then go back up there (or back to Peckham for a driver changeover)?

The 63 under it's current route will soon have a revised timetable in an attempt to improve it's reliability. If extended to Brockley Rise, expect more short runs to Peckham Rye and the current terminus to keep the service running along the core section of the route, which would lead to long waits between services at HOP just to get over to Forest Hill Road.

[dbboy]

Over the last 5 - 6 weeks in the morning my experience has been that the 63 has been terminated at either Ludgate Circus or Clerkenwell Green when I've wanted to get to Kings Cross. On the return I have noticed a lot of buses being terminated at Peckham Rye. The reason is buses running late. Amy extension will further exacerbate this situation.

[henryb]

It is about a 20 min walk from the end of Mundania to where the 63 stops to HOP station, depending on fitness. Those with mobility problems (elderly, those with young children) find it too hard because of the hill. The connection with P12 is difficult and unsatisfactory because of the distance between the stops and the irregularity of the P12 - you might as well walk. Extending the 63 would be a fantastic improvement.

[the-e-dealer]

As a commuter I look for the quickest route- I think most do so a 20 minute walk rules out the Honor Oak Route.

It takes about an hour for me to get to and from East Dulwich to Central London each day . If there were a bus that went to Honor Oak I would use it. I'd be delighted but it is just not practical at the moment.

[trizza]

Dbboy

If the 363 can go down Wood Vale there is absolutely no reason why the 63 cannot go down Honor Oak Park - it's a main road!!

The P12 is a complete waste of time. You're more likely to see a Waitrose in Honor Oak than see a P12 bus...

[dbboy]

trizza, what has Woodvale got to do with this?

How many people are we talking about that need to get from Peckham to HOP station?

As I said in an earlier post, why not run every third P12 direct from either the Heaton Arms or Kings Arms direct up Peckham Rye, Forest Hill Road and onto HOP station.

[henryb]

> So you'd expect a driver not to have a break after

> driving from Kings Cross, probably stuck in

> traffic along the route, then go back up there (or

> back to Peckham for a driver changeover)?

Do TFL have existing guidelines of how long a driver can go without a break? Would the extension push the route over that limit?

If the answer is yes to both is yes then no I wouldn?t. It seems to me there are a lot longer routes than the 63.

> The 63 under it's current route will soon have a

> revised timetable in an attempt to improve it's

> reliability. If extended to Brockley Rise, expect

> more short runs to Peckham Rye and the current

> terminus to keep the service running along the

> core section of the route, which would lead to

> long waits between services at HOP just to get

> over to Forest Hill Road.

Why is the frequency in the ?core? section more important than it is here? Surely the answer to bad reliability on the whole route is to put on more buses on the whole route.

[the-e-dealer]

If you ran the same bus route down 2 different routes this would cause confusion and passengers ending up not where they wish to be.

[dbboy]

I'm trying to offer a compromise

[James Barber]

Extending the number 63 bus to Honor Oak station has been cmapianged for by both local Labour and Lib Dems for a number of years.

Obviously makes lots of sense especially since the East London Line has a lot more passengers than predicted when the number 63 was dismissed as marginally outside cost benefit on the low forecast ELL train useage.

I would be curious how Val Shawcross intends to pay for the extension if elected. Average bus route receives ?4M subsidy pa.