Advice needed re bath taps

[Sue]

Long story short, I have to replace bath taps (and a spout and spray) which are situated in the middle of a bath, at the back, adjacent to an external wall. The bathroom is on the first floor of my bog standard small terraced house.

This shouldn't have been necessary, as I bought taps which had an assurance that spare parts would be available, but the taps have been discontinued and the manufacturers have run out of the parts required. Typical.

Two plumbers have told me that if this was an internal wall the taps could easily be replaced without removing the bath, but because it isn't they can't, and they both say that it will take two people a day to do the work. The bath is adjacent to a heated towel rail and also a pull-out shower screen, both of which might have to be removed to get the bath out.

A builder has subsequently told me that it can be done from the outside of the house, and that the external wall would just have to be patched afterwards. He also said that it shouldn't take two people to do the work even if it was done from the inside and the bath taken out.

Does anybody have any experience of/views on this please? Obviously the outside option would be better for me as presumably it would involve a lot less mess.

I attach two photos, showing both ends of the bath and the position of the taps. Part of the wall also has to be tiled, but that's a separate issue.

I know that here are things available which can be attached to taps when they are fitted which mean that any repairs can be done easily without having this hassle, however sod's law they aren't compatible with the kind of taps I have bought.

[ed_pete]

Hmm. No easy answer as far as I can see. I would have thought accessing from the outside is going to be pretty tricky. I assume that this is not ground floor so would require working up a ladder or a platform of some sort and the external wall is likely to be a brick length in depth so breaking through that to make a big enough hole to access the pipework is going to be far from simple. If it was me I'd bite the bullet and have the bath removed and replaced internally though I can see this would cause more upheaval as towel radiator is likely to have to be temporarily removed.

[Rianoo]

Remove bath panel and wooden frame work (front only) - disconnect waste and taps (probably on flexible connectors) - remove any silicone around edge of bath to free it up then slide the bath as far towards to towel rail and you may have enough room to remove taps and replace. If the bath has adjustable feet drop that may help. It could be possible, pain though. Leave the wall alone.

[diable rouge]

How did the taps get fitted in the first place? :)...

[Sue]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> How did the taps get fitted in the first place?

> :)...

They went in before the bath, presumably.

Or at least, the bottom parts of the taps must have done, then the top parts were screwed on once the bath was in position.

[se22cat]

Can I interest you in some fork handles instead?

[Sue]

Rianoo Wrote:

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> Remove bath panel and wooden frame work (front

> only) - disconnect waste and taps (probably on

> flexible connectors) - remove any silicone around

> edge of bath to free it up then slide the bath as

> far towards to towel rail and you may have enough

> room to remove taps and replace. If the bath has

> adjustable feet drop that may help. It could be

> possible, pain though. Leave the wall alone.

That's an interesting idea.

I've just measured, and there's a 13cm gap between the edge of the bath and the beginning of the towel rail. I suspect that if the bath was pulled forward there wouldn't be enough room at the back to get in to replace the taps :(

[Sue]

se22cat Wrote:

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> Can I interest you in some fork handles instead?

:)) :)) :))

[diable rouge]

Sue Wrote:

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> diable rouge Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > How did the taps get fitted in the first place?

> > :)...

>

>

> They went in before the bath, presumably.

>

> Or at least, the bottom parts of the taps must

> have done, then the top parts were screwed on once

> the bath was in position.

*If* the taps are split into two, the bottom part still needs to be connected to pipes below the bath.

What tends to happen is that there will be 2 copper (or cheaper plastic) feed pipes coming up from the floor void, in the area below where the bath taps are. Modern bath taps usually come with flexible 'tails', these allow for a bit of flexibility/movement for connecting to the fixed feeds. They would only need a gap big enough for a hand and wrench to work in, so if you can pull the bath forward about 4-6 inches, that should be enough for a hand to reach down and do the necessary. This is how they would've been fitted originally. The idea of creating a hole in the external wall is just crazy, and whoever suggested it, avoid at all costs :)...

[Sue]

Thank you, I will ask one of the plumbers if that looks possible, however it would be a very small gap.

One of the issues is that there is virtually no space underneath the bath.

[diable rouge]

If they have to remove the towel rail and screen, so be it, much better to do that than knock a hole in your external wall. If someone has designed this layout for you, I'd go back and ask them what they think should happen. It's been poorly thought out, after you go to all this trouble to get new taps fitted, you could later get an unrelated leak in the pipework and you're back to square one again. They should've fitted wall mounted taps and spout on that boxed-out wall with the removable shelf i.e. easy access for repairs!...:)

[Sue]

To be fair to all concerned, it was pointed out to me at the time that there would be problems if access was needed to the plumbing.

However I particularly wanted taps in the middle of the bath, to enable two people to share the bath without one having the tap end (sorry if too much information :)) )

So I said I would cross that bridge if I came to it. Sadly I have :(

This problem has only arisen because the stupid tap company (English Heritage. Don't use them) said that parts would be available, but they aren't, and they have removed that statement from their website (though I have a screenshot of it).

I don't know if I have any sort of claim against the company. A relative broke off the diverter lever (? diverting water between the spout and the spray) because when he couldn't immediately move it (it went up and along) he forced it upwards very hard and broke it off. He then claimed it would have happened soon anyway because of metal fatigue :)) :)) :))

It would have been a two minute job to replace it, as it just screwed in, but the company had "run out" of the part, despite their advertising that parts would be available.

The taps were discontinued shortly before they ran out of it, so I can't even match the replacement taps to my basin taps.

A friend tried to mend the lever but made things worse as water started leaking out of the bottom of the spout where it joins the bath.

Sod's law striking again, my insurance company said that this would count as two separate incidents, and as (bad) luck would have it, I had just changed my insurance company, and the new policy kicked in between the two incidents, so I would have had to deal with two companies, probably wrangling over whose responsibility it was, and I couldn't face it.

The relative is paying for this work, but it's been an absolute nightmare.

[ianr]

Sue, if you could find the replacement part, new or used, from another source, would that resolve the problem? If so, I'd suggest putting quite a bit of effort into that course. For a start, how about a query on Usenet group uk.d-i-y? If you don't have a news reader it's also accessible via https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/uk.d-i-y.

Would making a replacement part be out of the question?

[Sue]

ianr Wrote:

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> Sue, if you could find the replacement part, new

> or used, from another source, would that resolve

> the problem? If so, I'd suggest putting quite a

> bit of effort into that course. For a start, how

> about a query on Usenet group uk.d-i-y? If you

> don't have a news reader it's also accessible via

> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/uk.d-i-y.

>

> Would making a replacement part be out of the

> question?

Unfortunately the person who tried to mend it has now caused other problems, so just making a replacement part wouldn't solve it :(

Also I don't think it would be aesthetically pleasing :))

Good idea though, I should have tried that path in the first place (trying to find the part by other methods, I mean).

[DulwichFox]

Simplest solution would be break up the bath and fit a new one. They aren't that expensive.

You will be able to fit flexible couplings if not already fitted.

and you can have the taps at the end and live with it.

Cheaper than putting up scaffolding and going in through the wall.

or having to remove the presumably heated towel rail and having to drain the system and then

having to vent the boiler and rads.

**Solved**

[Sue]

Well, it depends how picky you are about what the bath and bathroom look like, I suppose.

I didn't go for the cheapest options and probably wouldn't again.

And a new bath would still have to be got past the towel rail.

[ed_pete]

Any possible access from the ceiling of the room below (the kitchen ?). A smallish square of plasterboard cut out and then the floorboards removed from below could be another option. Certainly not ideal but less aggro than the hole in the wall I would have thought.

[DulwichFox]

Sue Wrote:

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> Well, it depends how picky you are about what the

> bath and bathroom look like, I suppose.

>

> I didn't go for the cheapest options and probably

> wouldn't again.

>

> And a new bath would still have to be got past the

> towel rail.

With flexible couplings the bath would go in on the diagonal and then lower into place..

[Sue]

ed_pete Wrote:

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> Any possible access from the ceiling of the room

> below (the kitchen ?). A smallish square of

> plasterboard cut out and then the floorboards

> removed from below could be another option.

> Certainly not ideal but less aggro than the hole

> in the wall I would have thought.

That's an interesting possibility!

[fishbiscuits]

I agree 100% with DulwichFox. Although it may not seem an appealing option at the moment, I'd rip it out and put a new one in - with the taps in a more accessible place for (inevitable) future maintenance.

I really don't think any plumbing should ever be complelely boxed in and/or inaccessible.

[peckham_ryu]

Looks like a nice bath. Two people for a day sounds ok, especially if one is just a 'helper' so not on a full plumber rate - maybe that's something you could negotiate?

[diable rouge]

Access from the ceiling was my first thought, but it would be extremely difficult to take out the floorboards as they are nailed down from above into the floor joists. The bath will also be supported on some of the floorboards either directly or indirectly. Opening holes in ceilings usually creates a lot of mess in the room below too.

Sue obviously wants to keep the existing look and arrangement, so perhaps the best solution is to pull the bath forward as far as possible towards the towel rail (which I think you will have to do anyway to carry out the repair), and then build a matching boxed-out shelf along the width of the bath, to provide easy access for any future problems. It's also a nice feature for scented candles etc during those romantic baths...:)

[Sue]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> Sue obviously wants to keep the existing look and

> arrangement, so perhaps the best solution is to

> pull the bath forward as far as possible towards

> the towel rail (which I think you will have to do

> anyway to carry out the repair), and then build a

> matching boxed-out shelf along the width of the

> bath, to provide easy access for any future

> problems. It's also a nice feature for scented

> candles etc during those romantic baths...:)

Thanks, I'll investigate that option :)

[diable rouge]

I've just realised Sue that with that option there is an issue with your pull-out shower screen. I've never seen one of these, but presume that it slides into a cupboard/void/pocket behind the wall? Would you be able to repositon it ok? If not then you would have to replace it with another type of screen/curtain.

Also, the large shower valve looks like it is currently centred on the bath, moving the bath would make it off-centre. I don't know about you but that would jar with me and I'd have to move the valve too...:)

[Sue]

Yes I realised this morning about having to recentre the shower. That might make the whole thing impractical.

The shower curtain is pleated and folds up into a vertical container screwed to the wall and could easily be moved.