Old hospital site ideal for a new free school?

[JMT]

Hello

I have just attached a satellite shot of the grounds, which are accessed from the corner of Stuart Street and Sartor Road. Very much tucked away.

[zephyr]

That is Bredinghurst school which is being rebuilt on the same site - well half of it anyway. Bredinghurst is a school for children with behavioural, emotional and social difficulties. It used to have 50 pupils and the new scholl with have 70. Not sure there is much room left for another school

[i*Rate]

Willard,

I was surprised to hear that you did some filming at the Free School in Hammersmith - when did it open? If it is, indeed, up and running, then the Tory council certainly got those voluntary organisations out of that building in a hurry and soon poured in x ?100,000s of public money at a time of budget cutting and job losses.

Great to hear that the pupils will learn Latin; so essential for those training to be electrical and mechanical engineers. artisans and software technicians that we so desperately need in this country.

By the way, as regards objecting to this sort of school; ha ha, anyone who knows the borough now knows who it's run by and who befits from these sort of schemes. A right wing government coming up with a genuine plan to help working class children better themselves - I don't think so!

[flocker spotter]

How about the already approved Michaela Free School which has just lost a site in lambeth?

[JMT]

Yes, I had heard that it was being rebuilt, but that the existing buildings were to be retained an used for something else. I haven't done that much research, as you can probably tell, but I had been told that unless an educational use can be found for it, the buildings were going to be converted into residential.

[richfish]

Willard

It sounds wonderful doesn't it. I trust the sun was shining and there was poetry reading in the play ground.......

But of course any new school will start on a ride of high teacher morale and good pupil behaviour so unless we are to endlessly recreate and rebuild our schools I wouldn't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that this new model is a long term solution to tackling the challenges of inner city schooling, improving education for all and building strong and cohesive communities.

The questions that I think you need to ask yourself are what happens to those schools and their pupils that are not in the supposed vanguard of free schools? Less resources certainly, less attention definitely, unable to compete with higher teacher salaries that free schools can pay? Most likely. And who might the pupils be in those schools? Not the children of Toby Young or the equivalent media and professional classes leading the new free school movement you can be absolutely certain of that.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Unless a school is so vast that it never turns anyone away, you have to have some way of deciding admissions. Sending kids to their nearest school is just about the fairest, most inclusive way of doing it IMO. If this were the policy across the city, then schools would be a focus for the local community, reflective of that community and we could drop all the false rhetoric about choice. People with energy, drive and time, may be more inclined to direct some of it into improving their local school, rather than focussing on getting their ?first choice? and playing the admissions game. It would be more sustainable (in terms of environment and health), with presumably more children walking to school rather than being driven to the faith school (for example) a couple of miles away.

As for the ?those with money would move so this makes it a selective admissions policy' argument - When people move they consider a whole number of factors and schooling is only one of them. In a city such as London, where rich and poor often live alongside each other, such a policy only means a school which reflects the city?s diversity, or at least that of the local area. To suggest that it makes the school selective when compared to the alternatives, is pretty weak.

[Willard]

i*Rate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Willard,

>

> I was surprised to hear that you did some filming

> at the Free School in Hammersmith

Why?

[Willard]

richfish Wrote:

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> Willard

>

> It sounds wonderful doesn't it.

I dunno. Does it? Why don't you go to the Durand in Stockwell and see for yourself.

I trust the sun

> was shining and there was poetry reading in the

> play ground.......

>

Yes the sun was shining, it was the late heat wave we had. No, there was no poetry reading, just kids running around screaming and having fun, as 6 to 10 year olds like to do in the play ground.

[i*Rate]

Willard et all (a bit of Latin there),

I just looked up the Free School in Hammersmith so that I might make a fair and reasoned judgment of it after all of my recent comments on the Forum.

Well I was quite surprised at what I found, because when I saw the list of governors (alongside Chairman, Toby Young) I know now that the school is actually run by a ULTRA upper/middle class, white elite (with the exception of one Public School educated Asian (?) gentleman). Interestingly, two of the governors have backgrounds as Councillors for the borough council who are selling the new premises to the school and giving planning permission for it to be set up - so no conflict of interest there then ?!.

However, I do hope that some black and asian children from the local council estates in the catchment area of the school get places there so that they may aspire to become doctors or lawyers one day. Sadly, there are few council estates in that smart area of the borough, they are mainly in the north around White City, so this is going to be unlikely to happen. I wonder if anyone though of that when they sited the school?

Pip, pip.

[sillywoman]

Willard Wrote:

> I trust the sun

> > was shining and there was poetry reading in the

> > play ground.......

> >

>

> Yes the sun was shining, it was the late heat wave

> we had. No, there was no poetry reading, just kids

> running around screaming and having fun, as 6 to

> 10 year olds like to do in the play ground.

Now I'm really confused. I thought Free schools - and this thread - were all about secondary education i.e. Age 11 and above?

Are we discussing primary, cos that's a whole different ball game? If the free school-ers are doing Latin at primary that is impressive.

[richfish]

It might be Durand Academy that is being referred to, an academy and not a free school as far as I can ascertain.

[Willard]

sillywoman Wrote:

> Now I'm really confused. I thought Free schools -

> and this thread - were all about secondary

> education i.e. Age 11 and above?

>

> Are we discussing primary, cos that's a whole

> different ball game? If the free school-ers are

> doing Latin at primary that is impressive.

Hi SW, The West London Free School in Hammersmith (that well known bastion of the inner-city white middle class, according to i-rate) is the school I visited that teaches Latin. The primary school I visited was the Durand Academy. Don't think they teach Latin but they are opening the first state boarding school in a couple of years. More info here:

Durand Academy

[Willard]

I*rate wrote:

Actually it's et al, just the one l. Perhaps if you'd had the opportunity to go to a free school you might have a better grasp of Latin.;-)

I almost laughed when I read this, but again your poor Latin let's you down. Ultra is the Latin for beyond or more than. What is beyond upper class? The royal family? What is beyond white? I can't think of anything.

Do you have any idea how patronising this sounds? You have also chosen to exclude white kids from the estates, or indeed middle class black or Asian kids who aren't. You seem to have a big chip on your shoulder when it comes to this topic, and your black/white class warfare ranting is starting to stray from the OP's topic. Perhaps you could start your own thread in the lounge and nail yourself to the cross there.

Concordia Discors.

[edhistory]

Willard Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I almost laughed when I read this, but again your

> poor Latin let's you down. Ultra is the Latin for

> beyond or more than. What is beyond upper class?

> The royal family? What is beyond white? I can't

> think of anything.

May I draw your attention to Lewis & Short (page 1926 in the 1891 edition)?

John K

[bawdy-nan]

Willard, I can see you were impressed by your recent visits but I'm not convinced by your research skills and judgement. You seem to take things totally at face value. For example you state that one of these schools is going to set up "the first state boarding school". With some bells ringing I checked in with my old friend professor google who reminded me that the notion of the "state boarding school" is such s ling standing one as to have it's own association: http://www.sbsa.org.uk/

I don't doubt your enthusiasm just your ability to make any kind of critical judgement based on facts.

[Willard]

bawdy-nan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Willard, I can see you were impressed by your

> recent visits but I'm not convinced by your

> research skills and judgement. You seem to take

> things totally at face value. For example you

> state that one of these schools is going to set up

> "the first state boarding school". With some

> bells ringing I checked in with my old friend

> professor google who reminded me that the notion

> of the "state boarding school" is such s ling

> standing one as to have it's own association:

> http://www.sbsa.org.uk/

>

> I don't doubt your enthusiasm just your ability to

> make any kind of critical judgement based on

> facts.

Hi Bawdy, this is what I could have said but quite frankly I couldn't be arsed to type it all out:

It is thought to be the first time a state primary school has ever bought its own boarding school to educate its children.

Slap on the wrist for my poor research skills and judgement.

ETA: The Durand will be the UK's first fully free-state run boarding school, where as it looks like the SBSA ones are fee paying, all be it at a reduced rate.

"SBSA (State Boarding Schools Association) schools provide high quality boarding at the lowest possible cost."

As I've posted earlier, more info here.

[i*Rate]

Willard,

This is my last posting about this subject because I do feel that I am not a match for someone with your intellect and education; I mean this sincerely and without any hint of sarcasm.

You are correct about my use of the word ultra and maybe my comments about black and Asian children was wrong, unfortunately I never managed to pass O Level English Language or English Lit' at school and I really know very little about Latin. It was quite bad mannered and unkind of you to be so sneering.

What you are most correct about, though, is that I do have a chip on my shoulder about anything connected to class/schooling and status in the country. You probably have no idea what it was like to grow up in a working class family in London in the 50s with parents who were manual workers and who never had any books in the house. Just managing to get a white collar job was a struggle, let alone becoming lower middle class as I am now(I think?).

With respect then; good luck to the Free Schools, maybe they will do some good for the next generation.

[civilservant]

I know it's a very trivial point, but Willard's alleged Latin learning sits very ill with his (mis)use of English apostrophes. I quote: "I almost laughed when I read this, but again your poor Latin let's you down. Ultra is the Latin for beyond or more than. What is beyond upper class? The royal family? What is beyond white? I can't think of anything."

i*rate is not incorrect in his use of the prefix ultra, which can also mean "extreme" rather than "beyond" - very often, words morph their meaning when borrowed by other languages

[Willard]

civilservant Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know it's a very trivial point, but Willard's

> alleged Latin learning sits very ill with his

> (mis)use of English apostrophes. I quote: "I

> almost laughed when I read this, but again your

> poor Latin let's you down. Ultra is the Latin for

> beyond or more than. What is beyond upper class?

> The royal family? What is beyond white? I can't

> think of anything."

>

> i*rate is not incorrect in his use of the prefix

> ultra, which can also mean "extreme" rather than

> "beyond" - very often, words morph their meaning

> when borrowed by other languages

Yes, I accept that. Fair enough.

[Willard]

Hi i*rate

I think a few of us have been guilty of being a bit sneery on here, for my part I apologise. I do need to wind my neck in sometimes!

Take care, W

[i*Rate]

Dear Willard,

Thank you for your apology, you are obviously a kind and decent person.

I think that we can agree to differ on this subject and long may the debate continue.

Kind regards.